TiVos from JustDeals-au - Are they really PAL?

G'day All,

I've noticed a regular seller of TiVos on Ebay, called Justdeals-au, has advertised that their TiVos are PAL, not NTSC. Surprised by this, I e-mailed them. My question, and their response (in reverse order) are quoted below.

Can anyone advise of their first-hand experience with this company? Are their TiVos PAL compatible and if not, has anyone taken these people to task?

RobB

Quote:

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Hi Rob,

Thank you for your interesting in our product.
Please kindly be informed that this product is PAL system and it comes with
full-functional remote control
Thanks for your inquiry. Hope we have chance to serve you soon.

Regards,

Diana Cao
Customer Service Department
JustDeals Australia
customerservice@justdeals-au.com
<customerservice@justdeals-au.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: <<deleted>>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 3:34 AM
To: customerservice@justdeals-au.com
Subject: Item number: 280018288711 Philips Series 1 TiVo Digital Video
Recorder PTV100 DVR

Hi,

Your company has offered many TiVos such as the recent subject listing.
I have a good understanding of these items, already own a few and am
looking to purchase and set some up for family members. I am surprised
to see that you claim the subject item TV system is “PAL”. I have copied
some of the text from the item to the bottom of this e-mail - "PAL"
appears twice. If these are 2nd hand imports from the US, this is
unlikely. Before I bid, please confirm the tuner is indeed PAL, not NTSC
as this significantly affects the final cost of setting up a TiVo in
Australia (it either needs a tuner mod or the addition of a digital STB
or VCR for TV signal).

Cheers,

Rob

Technical data:

Instant replay: Yes
TV System: PAL
User-defined video-quality: Yes
Onscreen channel guide: Yes
Automated nightly clock set: Yes
Compatible with cable and satellite broadcasting: Yes
Phone line input: 1
Control outputs: 1 serial, 1 infrared
Audio inputs: 1 pair
Composite-video inputs: 1
S-Video inputs: 1
RF antenna inputs: 1
RF antenna outputs: 1
Audio-video outputs: 2 pair
Composite-video outputs: 2
S-Video outputs: 1
AC power cord: Detachable
Remote control: Full function
Package Includes:

TiVo Digital Video Recorder - PAL
User's Guide
1 Remote Control
1 Stereo analog audio/video interconnect
1 RJ-11 telephone cable
1 AC power cord
1 S-Video cable
1 Coaxial cable

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Originally Posted by RobB

Can anyone advise of their first-hand experience with this company? Are their TiVos PAL compatible and if not, has anyone taken these people to task?

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Hi Rob

Yes, I have both directly via contacting them (with no reply, probably because they know who I am) and indirectly via comments on my website in the "TiVo's For Sale in Oz" area.

I have had several of these TiVo's shipped direct to me for modifications and I can tell you that these TiVo's are only PAL by virtue of them being so only if you run the OzTiVo (or nzTiVo) image.

Other things I can tell you is that they are obviously imported direct from the USA and the JustDeals Australia people have no idea what needs to be done to get a TiVo working here as the package contains a photocopied useless set of hookup instructions that are not relevant for use here (they say it is as easy as hooking up to the phone line and away you go - correct only in a proper TiVo serviced area but not here), contains a CD that has "utilities" not even relevant for use here in Australia (contents looks suspiciously like the same utilities CD I got a long time ago when I first got into TiVo with a book I bought about "Hacking TiVo" from the USA), has no IR Blaster cable, has a serial cable which is not a "null modem" type for accessing the TiVo via serial means, has an "RF Cable" supplied which is the threaded "F connector" type to match the incompatible NTSC tuner, and has a USA power cord which will not plug into our power outlets.

The TiVo's do not come with a network card and out of the several I have had shipped to me, two have had obvious damage to the internal modem (the most common fault in a TiVo). While this is not an issue if a network card is added, for anyone wanting to attempt the painful exercise of getting a TiVo working via modem it would be impossible with some of these units.

If none of that fazes you and you have some knowlede of what is required to get TiVo running then they are an "OK" basic unit. $189 Buy It Now is a little steep however as I would sell such a thing for the same price with IR Blaster cable, A/V lead, remote and the correct power cable and a 60 day warranty for $175. Or fully modified with stereo PAL tuner, 2nd A/V and even a small tested hard disk set up for your area for $275 (or arrange to supply a large hard disk of your choosing).

Hope that helps.

G'Day Darren,

Thanks for the reply. I'm surprised someone hasn't asked the same question, but others probably looked on your website - doh! I had a quick look there previously, but only for spares. I didn't see the good advice about where to buy - or not, as the case may be! I'm not surprised to find out the TiVos on JustDeals-au aren't PAL (in terms of the tuner anyway) and that their repeated us of 'PAL' (four times) in the description is a cheap attempt to flog the items here. Sure, setting them up can be done; I've bought mine direct from the US and it can be tedious buying the bits separately - my sig block shows I've got a few unfinished yet. Oh well, that's what hobbies are for, aren't they!!????

Thanks again,

Rob

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Originally Posted by RobB

I've bought mine direct from the US and it can be tedious buying the bits separately - my sig block shows I've got a few unfinished yet. Oh well, that's what hobbies are for, aren't they!!????

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Yep! Hobbies are great, and money pits too! My side of TiVo is helping people like you find the missing bits, repairing any that do turn up less than perfect and of course my original venture into TiVo - PAL tuners and other hardware mods.

Still, I don't mind sinking funds into this hobby. I don't think I have ever made anything on it by the time the spare parts are purchased and the electricity bills to run the test equipment, soldering station and TiVo's on test (generally two of them at any one time) are paid, but it is rewarding knowing I give back hardware wise what others have done on a software level.

Cheers

Complain to EBAY that their adds are misleading and incorrect. That should fix it up.

Hi all,

Dang! Wish I'd seen this thread before I bought one of these from Just Deals (or should it be Unjust Deals). Paid $149 for it including delivery and it arrived yesterday. Looks OK, fairly clean although it is obviously second hand.

Darren's comments on the package contents are spot-on although my unit is in fact a PTV300 box, not the PTV100 as advertised-don't know what the difference is except there is an RJ 45 socket above the phoneline socket that doesn't appear in the photos on Ebay.

Fully expected from my readings on this site that I would need to load an image to my brand new 80 GB Seagate HDD and would eventually have to add a network card but hoped to struggle by using the internal modem until I could buy the add-ons.

Things went pretty well, image loaded, TiVo booted up, GS progressed well until the Setup Call needed to be made when I got a "No Dialtone" error.
Tried everything, tested the extension cable that came with the TiVo, tried all permutations of modem settings-no result. Guess the modem is cactus.
So much for "Refurbished" by Just Deals, plug it in, if the lights come on its fully refurbished-no further testing necessary.

So I have a few questions which are probably pretty basic and probably slightly off-topic but are beyond me at this stage:

1. Am I doing something wrong with the modem settings and is there a sure-fire way to test the modem or will I need to send it to Darren?

2. Can the Setup Call be made over the internet once I have setup the network since I won't need a modem then. That way I can leave the modem as is? (Current set up is two way satellite service 512 Kb down 128Kb up with 3 comps networked thru a TP-Link 108Mb wireless router)

3. The TiVo is running from a dedicated Standard Def STB receiving FTA from Mackay Qld, our nearest town 120 Km away so don't think PAL (or non-PAL) tuner is an issue for me. Have no intention at this stage to buy Austar or similar, so can get programme guides from newspaper. Can TiVo be used as a sort of high quality VCR until I get all the other problems sorted out?

Apologies for the long post but I, like many others love the concept of TiVo and would love to get it working properly, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Geoff

Hi Geoff, hopefully this will help a bit, although I may be a bit off - I'm hardly an expert with the TiVo.

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Originally Posted by geoffo

1. Am I doing something wrong with the modem settings and is there a sure-fire way to test the modem or will I need to send it to Darren?

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Hmmm it's possible that they infact disabled the modem. I remember researching some of these kinds of places and one noted that they destroyed the modem circuitry as it was not AUSTEL certified, and thus was technically illegal and potentially unsafe to operate on the Australian POTS network.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geoffo

2. Can the Setup Call be made over the internet once I have setup the network since I won't need a modem then. That way I can leave the modem as is? (Current set up is two way satellite service 512 Kb down 128Kb up with 3 comps networked thru a TP-Link 108Mb wireless router)

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Yes, once you have installed an configured a TiVo network card, guided setup will be able to place the first phone home call via the internet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by geoffo

3. The TiVo is running from a dedicated Standard Def STB receiving FTA from Mackay Qld, our nearest town 120 Km away so don't think PAL (or non-PAL) tuner is an issue for me. Have no intention at this stage to buy Austar or similar, so can get programme guides from newspaper. Can TiVo be used as a sort of high quality VCR until I get all the other problems sorted out?

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Hmmm this is a bit of a tricky one. TiVo is able to function without guide data - you simply use the manual record feature.
However, if you were unable to make the initial setup call then it won't work as far as I know. I believe that the channel lists and set top box IR codes are downloaded during the initial setup call. I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

Hope this helped you out a bit, but again take it with a grain of salt, I'm far from the level of knowledge of Darren etc. :)

Hi Geoff

Sorry to hear you have been "burned" of sorts. All is not lost however, as per my replies below:

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Originally Posted by geoffo

Darren's comments on the package contents are spot-on although my unit is in fact a PTV300 box, not the PTV100 as advertised-don't know what the difference is

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None. That related to the original hard disk size. Apart from that there is no difference.

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except there is an RJ 45 socket above the phoneline socket that doesn't appear in the photos on Ebay.

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Yep. I've noticed that on a few. My understanding from seeing ones shipped from JustDeals USA is that they came fitted with a network card over there, but for some reason not here. Probably run out of stock given they all seemed to have knock off "TV-LAN 1.0" cards fitted that are 100% Turbonet compatible but not genuine.

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Things went pretty well, image loaded, TiVo booted up, GS progressed well until the Setup Call needed to be made when I got a "No Dialtone" error.
Tried everything, tested the extension cable that came with the TiVo, tried all permutations of modem settings-no result. Guess the modem is cactus.
So much for "Refurbished" by Just Deals, plug it in, if the lights come on its fully refurbished-no further testing necessary.

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Uh oh... Did you follow their hookup sheet and assume you just needed to plug in the telephone lead and away you go? If you did then sorry to tell you but you firstly need a dialup connection with an ISP and then also it has to be compatible with how TiVo "talks" to the ISP - and this is becoming rare these days.

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2. Can the Setup Call be made over the internet once I have setup the network since I won't need a modem then. That way I can leave the modem as is? (Current set up is two way satellite service 512 Kb down 128Kb up with 3 comps networked thru a TP-Link 108Mb wireless router)

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Sure can. Get yourself a network card and forget about the modem. This is how 99.9% of TiVo's out there operate.

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3. The TiVo is running from a dedicated Standard Def STB receiving FTA from Mackay Qld, our nearest town 120 Km away so don't think PAL (or non-PAL) tuner is an issue for me. Have no intention at this stage to buy Austar or similar, so can get programme guides from newspaper. Can TiVo be used as a sort of high quality VCR until I get all the other problems sorted out?

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You sure do have FTA that can use an internal PAL tuner. Given you emailed me today I know your location and looking at the latest online ACMA data for TV reception you should be trying for Mt Lucas near Proserpine which has analogue stations (but no digital yet) on:

UHF 53 (SBS)
UHF 56 (ABC)
UHF 59 (STQ Seven)
UHF 62 (TNQ TEN)
UHF 65 (RTQ Nine)

Now at present there will not be a configuration (called a "slice") for Proserpine in the OzTiVo server but if you wanted to utilise a PAL tuner then I'm the guy you talk to for getting a specific location added. Alternatively given you have an external digital STB then there is already a Queensland digital "slice" in the OzTiVo server. With any luck your model STB is already defined in the list here:

http://minnie.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/vie.../GuidedSetup16

Hope that helps.

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Originally Posted by woz_331

Hope this helped you out a bit, but again take it with a grain of salt, I'm far from the level of knowledge of Darren etc. :)

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:blush:

Thanks! But your TiVo is not far off the mark too :)

Only comment I'll make is that while you are correct the modems are not approved for use here I don't think JD.au intentionally disable theirs. Although I know they don't test the modem due to me witnessing a couple of units with blown modem chips which is not uncommon in TiVo's due to them not liking lightning, which was a major cause for people in the USA selling them in the first place. However in this case I'm sure Geoff's problem is more of a configuration problem, but given his network setup a TiVo network card is the way to go anyway, which as you know bypasses the need for a modem.

Hello again,
Wow! What fantastic advice! Thanks to both Woz and Darren for your help. I have a much clearer picture on the direction I must now follow.
Cheers
Geoff

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Originally Posted by geoffo

Hi all,

Dang! Wish I'd seen this thread before I bought one of these from Just Deals (or should it be Unjust Deals). Paid $149 for it including delivery and it arrived yesterday. Looks OK, fairly clean although it is obviously second hand.

Darren's comments on the package contents are spot-on although my unit is in fact a PTV300 box, not the PTV100 as advertised-don't know what the difference is except there is an RJ 45 socket above the phoneline socket that doesn't appear in the photos on Ebay.

Geoff

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Hi,

I just received my unit from JD. I am delighted with it...

I had no ecpectation that the modem would work and had a Turbonet card, drive mount kit, imaged hard drive and IR blaster ready to go into it as soon as it arrived. These things I bought locally from: http://www.tivodownunder.com/

I was also psyched to do a case mod and was delighted (but also a bit deflated) to find a RJ-45 connector already on the rear of the case. Exactly where I would have put it, above the defunct modem.

I had to crack the case a second time to check the internal patch lead, as I had a (ahem) slight network airgap problem during Guided setup, but apart from that, I am overjoyed at the ease of getting the unit set up.

I was even more impressed to find I could reprogram my TiVo remote to control the TV, so now it does everything except the dvd player. Yeah!!

After reading your article, I went back to check the RF Tuner and found that it seems to work fine, although I have chosen to use an external STB (analog reception here is not very good). So yes it seems to be a PAL unit.

I haven't figured out exactly which model, 100 or 300. How do I tell ?

So I would be prefectly happy to purchase another unit from those guys...

-Joe-B^)

Hi Joe,

Glad to see you had such a smooth run. I guess my lack of TiVo knowledge led me to believe JD's Ebay description of the unit as "Refurbished"--meaning just that, fully working, but not new.

Anyhow, after some excellent advice, especially from Darren I gave up on the modem and went ahead and purchased a cache card plus ram, installed a network cable to my router and, Bob's ya uncle, everything went swimmingly EXCEPT I'm suffering the "Green Line" effect which according to my searches is a hardware fault which can best be resolved by replacing the SAA7114 chip.

I consider this to fall outside the definition of "Refurbished" so I've emailed JD for their advice but I really don't expect a reply.

BTW the model type is on a plate on the rear of the unit, at least on mine anyway and refers only to a different HDD size (thanks Darren).

Once bitten, I don't think I would buy anything else from JD, if I'm ever in the market for another box I think I'd buy from George at Eklectic, more expensive certainly but at least I could be sure it works!

Good luck with your unit.

Cheers

Geoff

Update!

Just heard from JD, they have agreed to replace the unit! Apologies for what I was thinking of them.

G

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Originally Posted by geoffo

I'm suffering the "Green Line" effect which according to my searches is a hardware fault which can best be resolved by replacing the SAA7114 chip.

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Try setting the "Screen Width" to 720 pixels using palmod_config, it's been known to remove the green line.

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Originally Posted by T1voZA

Try setting the "Screen Width" to 720 pixels using palmod_config, it's been known to remove the green line.

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I've wondered about tweaking palmod... though this question might be suited to a different topic.

What are most people using ?

I don't have any problems with green lines or green borders and generally, the picture quality is great, but occasionally I notice some pixelation or 'blockiness' during fast pans or high motion video sequences. I even get this when watching live TV. It is only moderately annoying.

I am a hard disk miser, so have set the recording quality to basic.

Should I use medium or will tweaking palmod help this problem or potentially make it worse ?

I have read on the ozTiVo site that using the 720 setting pushes the mpeg encoding chip too hard and that it should only be used if you need good widesreen recording(s).

I'd love to know what recording setting and palmod tweaks other people are using.

I guess I can experiment myself, my housemates will understand if their favourite shows look terrible :rolleyes:

-Joe-B^)
Current Household TiVo Popularity ranking: 60%

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Originally Posted by JoeHolloway

I am a hard disk miser, so have set the recording quality to basic.

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Anything less than "high" is going to show plenty of artifacts. At this rate you consume (roughly) 2GB/hr and at "best" it is 2.5GB/hr

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Originally Posted by geoffo

Update!

Just heard from JD, they have agreed to replace the unit! Apologies for what I was thinking of them.

G

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Well that is good news. But then again if you HAD bought from George (or asked me if I had any, as per my webpage regarding where to get one from) then it would not have to be such a painful excercise. Afterall I am George's authorised repairer in this part of the world ;)

FWIW I have repaired plenty of green line TiVo's too. Wonder what JD will do with this one... Probably just bin it I'd imagine.

Ouch! Sorry Darren. Realised when I re-read my post late last night that I had neglected to mention your excellent service! Apologies. Will post again when JD have done their thing.

Thanks to T1voZA for suggestion on screen width but, since I'm getting my signal from a standard STB and not the tuner it probably won't make a difference.

Cheers

No apologies needed! I did not take offence and knew what you meant. It's all good :)