Tivo freezing/hanging daily

[dyrplq]

Hi there, my Tivo (running oztivo v1.4) is freezing on a daily basis, some days multiple times.

I have read the various posts here regarding things that can cause freezes and therefore am resisting telnetting, using tivoweb, or running any 'dodgy' apps. I have also created a cron job to manually reboot twice a day in the hope that this manual reboot would eliminate the undesirable ones. None of this has helped.

Freezes will occur any time of the day and in any tivo state, ie. watching live tv, watching a recorded show, or even when tivo is in standby.

Apart from this, it runs fine.

Is there a log or something I can look at to try to pinpoint what is causing the freeze? I love my tivo but this is very frustrating (and my wife is getting serioulsy pissed!!) :o

Cheers, Phil

[Darren King]

Things to try in this order:

First point of call with any freezing TiVo is to try imaging up another hard disk and see if it is any different. Any size hard disk will do above 2GB.

Next thing to do is disconnect/remove the network card to see that it is not an external attack locking up the TiVo.

Next is possible power supply issues.

After this you are possibly looking at need of seeking further advice.

[dyrplq]

Thanks Darren, I'll give these a go. I'm planning on imaging up the very latest (v1.5 I think it is now) anyway so will see if that improves things.

[Darren King]

Yes it is R1.5 20051128 but unless something amiss has happened to your install there has been nothing done between R1.4 and R1.5 that impacts on lockups like you are describing.

At the very least if you are intending to re-install with the latest image on the same drive I would be doing a thorough checkup on the hard disk, and this does not mean using something like Windows surface scan or similar. Try using the manufacturer's tools if available.

[petestrash]

A freeze or lockup once a week or less often is usually fine.

But less than 24 hours between freezes does point to an problem which hopefully Darren's tips will help with.

Peter.

[timl]

dyrplq, could you let us know, did any of Darren King's suggestions solve the problem?

My Philips recently bought from George is doing the same thing I believe. I occasionally (every few days - certainly more frequently than weekly) get a complete TiVo freeze. This is most frustrating after spending a long Waitangi holiday weekend away, to discover that the unit froze on Friday evening having partially recorded a show. :(

I don't have to be doing anything via the remote, telnet or web. What happens is:

* Cannot ping the TiVo, let alone telnet or web into it.
* The front panel LEDs are stuck in their last state (whether ON or OFF).
* IR Remote control doesn't induce any response.
* TV screen output shows the frame (frozen) at the time of lockup.

This seems a little different from what many experience, which from my understanding after trawling these forums ranges between just Tivoweb crashing or some other lockup which is able to be resoved with a clean command-line triggered 'reboot'. My only solution is power cycling the unit - which (having a history in SysAdmin) seems very harsh.

Scheduling a cron job to reboot frequently seems to be a bit of a fudge hack. If anyone knows at a lower level where problems frequently exist I'd like to solve it there.

I have tried trawling the logs but this induced a lockup when 'grep'ing a large file. (As above the unit mostly locks under no interaction). I should really try searching the files again, but this time just FTP them off and filter them on a PC...

Does anyone have a silver bullet? I've only had the unit for 2.5 weeks now but after I've learned more about the platform would like to help with development etc (my key areas are in UNIX and Cisco / IP networks). I just need to get past this hurdle first so I can *play* unhindered.

Tim (Wellington, NZ).

[T1voZA]

Both TiVoWeb and Turbonet cards have been known to cause issues.

TiVoWeb is most commonly the problem with the cause usually associated with the modules that link into the TiVo events. Another potential cause seems to be when your LAN router crashes, this can also kill your unit. Both of these issues have been the cause of some of my users problems and have been discussed in further detail in the "Tivo Web dies (http://tivoza.nanfo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=84)" thread. Unfortunately there is not much that can be done if the cause is your router crashing. If the fault lies with TiVoWeb then the "KeepTivoWebResponsive (http://minnie.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/view/Howto/KeepTivoWebResponsive)" guide may solve your problems.

Turbonet cards have also been known to cause issues. If your unit crashes frequently without you making use of TiVoWeb then this can usually be attributed to the Turbonet card. The first thing you may want to check is that the card is properly secured, you may also want to remove the card and clean the board connectors on your TiVo motherboard with some alcohol then reconnect the card and make sure it is properly pushed in. If this still causes problems then you may need to adjust the Turbonet timing value. This has been discussed in further detail here (http://tivoza.nanfo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=111#656) and here (http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=137587). The conclusion drawn in both cases was to set the timing value to 'failsafe', this can be done via 'nic_config_tivo'.

[gregs]

My tivo was crashing daily with the R1.4 image, I tried 3 different drives two seagates and 1 maxtor, all of which passed their manufacturers diags. I imaged my seagate 160 gb drive with the newer iso and its been up 12 days without a hiccup!!!
Current Temperature: 42C
Software System: 3.0-01-1-000
Remote Address
Uptime 12d 1h 44m 39s

life is good :)

[timl]

Mmmm. I should have been a little more helpful re: my setup.

* My temperature stays around 34 to 35 deg C.
* I'm running R1.5 (2005/11/28) of the OzTivo image and have only ever run that version.
* I have a 60GB Seagate Barracuda (pre Fluid Bearing generation) although I'm planning on buying a 250GB 7200.8 series drive. Default 127MB swap.

My router is a Cisco and I've just checked the syslogs (on the router) from the last week or so. It's stable as. I've configured it to assign a static DHCP (ie. always leases the same IP address matched up to the TurboNet MAC address) which has a loooong lease. The router definately is stable (I've worked on (admittedly bigger) Cisco's with uptimes of 5 years).

I do have external web access enabled through the Cisco from the outside world. Although, I have mapped an unpopular port number on the outside to the Tivoweb server on the inside of the Cisco. My DSL external IP address is dynamic (due most NZ ISPs!!) so I'm a roaming target any time I wish to reset the DSL session - so I figure it's safe enough. The router logs report that it is only me from my workplace and my Blackberry's web client that has even attempted access from the outside world - so I can rule out an external denial of service attack. ....I'll firm this up at a later date by setting up a SSL VPN and tunnelling the TiVoWeb application through that to secure browser sessions terminated on the Cisco.

Also, my load average never drops below 1.0 and frequently sits up near 2.0. Is this normal quiescent CPU activity?

I have now set my TurboNet timing from 'optimal' to 'failsafe' and rebooted. I'll report back if I still have grief. I have yet to FTP off the TiVo logs and trawl them.

Many thanks for your suggestions! :)

[zollymonsta]

Current Temperature: 34C
Uptime 0d 6h 19m 00s (I reboot via cron every morning at 4am to avoid lockups) ;)

Memory Statistics:
total: used: free: shared: buffers: cached:
Mem: 14274560 14143488 131072 49975296 110592 4673536
Swap: 133165056 4300800 128864256
MemTotal: 13940 kB
MemFree: 128 kB
MemShared: 48804 kB
Buffers: 108 kB
Cached: 4564 kB
SwapTotal: 130044 kB
SwapFree: 125844 kB

[dyrplq]

...if you have a cron job setup and your Tivo crashes, the cron won't run. I've now gone to the extent of having it connected via a Dick Smith Timer switch which literally cuts power for 10 mins everyday at 3pm (Bold and the Beautiful is on I think so thats safe enough to avoid) just to ensure it isnt frozen when I get home from work.

It ran for about 3 days non-stop up to yesterday, then crashed 3 times. This is my second image on a second disk. I am going to try with another image and will also try the network card suggestion below. I never use Tivoweb now and have no other 'hacks' running.

A friend of mine tried 5 seperate images on 3 disks before getting one that is pretty much stable now so maybe its the luck of the draw.

[dyrplq]

...wheres the 'nic_config_tivo' file?

[thomson]

I've now gone to the extent of having it connected via a Dick Smith Timer switch which literally cuts power for 10 mins everyday at 3pm just to ensure it isnt frozen when I get home from work.

One other potential cause could be a high level of IR interference. I'm thinking that if there is a lot of IR noise then some items of the TiVo may be getting overloaded trying to determine which ones are for it. So you might try a different spot for the TiVo (if possible).

If you do use the "phone" module under TivoWeb then you might like to comment out the line that reads "event register $TmkEvent::EVT_DIALUPEVENT DialupCallback" (this can be done by adding a hash '#' to the start of the line). This can be found in the modules directory and is called phone.itcl. I do not know if this will help, but it might be worth a try if you are having trouble.

[T1voZA]

...wheres the 'nic_config_tivo' file?It's in the '/sbin' directory, which is in the $PATH. When connected to your TiVo via telnet (if using PuTTY, make sure to have the "Return key sends Telnet New Line instead of ^M" unticked, see here (http://tivoza.nanfo.com/wiki/index.php/How_to_use_Telnet) for details), just type:

nic_config_tivo

[dyrplq]

One other potential cause could be a high level of IR interference. I'm thinking that if there is a lot of IR noise then some items of the TiVo may be getting overloaded trying to determine which ones are for it. So you might try a different spot for the TiVo (if possible).

If you do use the "phone" module under TivoWeb then you might like to comment out the line that reads "event register $TmkEvent::EVT_DIALUPEVENT DialupCallback" (this can be done by adding a hash '#' to the start of the line). This can be found in the modules directory and is called phone.itcl. I do not know if this will help, but it might be worth a try if you are having trouble.

Thanks for the tip TivoZa. Thomson, what does this line do?

[thomson]

Thomson, what does this line do?
It reduces the number of hooks into the event handler... which could be a reason why the system becomes unresponsive (as any hung event handlers can cause this to occur).

[timl]

I think that setting 'failsafe' timing under 'nic_config_tivo' has meant that I now am able to telnet in (it wasn't even pingable before the change) and perform diagnostics during a screen freeze/lock up.

However - it may be that I haven't allowed enough time since the change to see if this is always the case during a freeze - ie. I'll be monitoring that behavior from now on.

My other issue is that I don't get much (any??) opportunity to diagnose via telnet during a lock up because that means the Missus is delayed watching the latest Shortland Street. (ie. Instant reboot required in order to restore household peace). I gather that most people around here get the same issue in their household - the TiVo becomes the most insideous addictive drug once it's introduced!

My new Seagate 7200.9 series 250GB drive arrived about 30 mins ago!! I'll image it up tonight and see if it makes a difference too. Does anyone think that using an UltraATA cable (80 wire) in place of the normal IDE (40 wire) cable would make a difference? It certainly does in a modern PC - but is the TiVo IDE controller that advanced?

[Darren King]

Does anyone think that using an UltraATA cable (80 wire) in place of the normal IDE (40 wire) cable would make a difference? It certainly does in a modern PC - but is the TiVo IDE controller that advanced?

It won't make any difference. The TiVo ASIC chip can only handle ATA-33 at best. We are only talking an overall processor speed of 40MHz in a TiVo.

[petestrash]

I think that setting 'failsafe' timing under 'nic_config_tivo' has meant that I now am able to telnet in (it wasn't even pingable before the change) and perform diagnostics during a screen freeze/lock up.

However - it may be that I haven't allowed enough time since the change to see if this is always the case during a freeze - ie. I'll be monitoring that behavior from now on.

It depends on what causes the lockup. The most common lockups will kill the remote and TiVoweb, but telnet usually stays up till just before it reboots itself.


My new Seagate 7200.9 series 250GB drive arrived about 30 mins ago!! I'll image it up tonight and see if it makes a difference too. Does anyone think that using an UltraATA cable (80 wire) in place of the normal IDE (40 wire) cable would make a difference? It certainly does in a modern PC - but is the TiVo IDE controller that advanced?

If you mean will the throughput will be higher, then unfortunatley not. It's the same as using that drive and cable in a PC thats over 5 years old the interface is still only ATA33 and can't run at ATA100.

Peter.

[petestrash]

Darren replied while I was still typing :)

[timl]

Thanks both!

On the ATA cable I was meaning more from a stability point of view on the balanced cabling rather than from a performance standpoint. Placing even a decent DVD-ROM drive on a controller tends to yeild a better advertised capability in the PC's BIOS setup with an 80 conductor cable than placing it on a standard 40 wire one. I was thinking that was due to better signalling integrity (ie. SNR and clocking) being seen by the drive.

I'm probably talking bollocks :D

I read in another thread that some (this may have been limited to UK Thomsons) had better luck/stability running 2.5.5 software than 3.0. Is that a desireable downgrade or irrelevant to a Philips US model?

I think that if from now on, I see I still have some form of management of the TiVo (since the NIC timing change) during a 'crash', that I'll write a watchdog to reboot either the whole OS or reload those components which need it. Being a relative newbie of course, I'll need to research a whole lot into the various process IDs which operate remote, UI, output video etc for the latter.

That's what this kind of a project is all about after all!

[Darren King]

Well, hey... I mean there is nothing stopping you from trying an 80-way cable and seeing if it makes a difference stability wise. It never has for me, but you may be lucky. That's what it is all about: Experimentation ;)

But transfer wise: no. ATA-33 is about all you are ever going to get.

Just remember though that you will have to "unplug" the blocked up pin on the cable as the IDE connector on the TiVo has ALL the pins present, and not with the missing one around the middle (or thereabouts).

[timl]

Well, I'm back to square 1. Whilst trying to MFS FTP my current content from my 60GB TiVo disk on to my PC, I get the good ole Total Freeze where I can't even ping the box, so I guess the nic_config_tivo to failsafe may have done squat. I tend to get up to half a GB of data off and then the TiVo locks solid, requiring a power cycle (which I hate doing - it seems a bit harsh).

My 250GB disk arrived yesterday and I'd like to rebuild with solely that, to rule out a disk problem (and also to assist with DJC's new, new dev emulator testing). There's still some content on the 60GB I'd like to transfer over first though.

I don't see anything in the logs that ring alarm bells. I think the unit freezes at such a low level that no watchdog etc gets a chance to log anything. :(

Post Stop: I just tried again after a 1 hour uptime - TiVo locked up after 55MB of transfer. Time to progress with opening up the unit, cleaning the NIC contacts and replacing the disk. (Multiple changes -> poor diagnostic procedure, I know).

Darren, with your extensive hardware knowledge - do you think I am looking at a main board fault ?

[Darren King]

Have you at least tried the new hard disk "vanilla", as in no hacks just the basic setup? If not try that. If that still locks, then try unplugging the network card and see if that works.

IF, and only if, doing the above still gets you a TiVo that locks up then yes it is a motherboard problem.

[timl]

Well done Darren! :cool:

It's been long enough to say that I now have an utterly stable TiVo. Woo hoo! :D

I disabled Tivoweb and the (build included) FTP daemon. Life is groovy again. I don't care that I can't show off my TiVo and programme schedule via my BlackBerry any longer to friends and workmates.

I care that my machine goes about its business flicking the red Recording LED on or off from time to time recording the crap I (we) like to watch, it responds to the remote with cool boing sounds when I (we) press buttons and there's moving pictures on the tube.

As this is well and truely a production machine now - I'd be tossed out on the street before I could say, "Hey babe - what you feel like watching?" if I screwed with it any longer. So, my development/play machine is winging its way to me...

...so I can tinker again. I'd like to see if I can get Tivoweb going and see if it is just the 'phone' module that is shafting the event handler.

Happiness REALLY IS two fully operational TiVos!

[Darren King]

Good stuff :)

As much as people hate me saying it (I sound like a broken record!) but the first point of call with any TiVo problems is to try another hard disk. You would be amazed with how many little niggly faults are cause by either software and/or a glitchy hard disk. Overall the motherboards are very reliable. Roll on the days we get reasonable sized flashRAM "hard disks" where there is no mechanical parts :D

Well done in persevering. It paid off ;)

[zollymonsta]

Happiness REALLY IS two fully operational TiVos!

Damn.. I knew I should have copyrighted my sig file. :D