Newbie Setup problem with RF Pal input not working

[mikepy]

Hi
I have just setup a UK Tivo and run the setup as per instructions but i seem to have made a mistake somehow.
The satellite input is working fine but i have a coax aerial input which i "think" i set up ok but this does not work. ie when i switch to a channel not on the satellite input i get a blue screen saying that the tivo cannot show live tv?

I have looked at setting up the control cable/sat.setup again but the screen shows Cable w/o box -not required- and it wont let me change this.

Can anyone with more experience give me an idea what i need to do to get it working please?

Mike

[Darren King]

Hi Mike


I have looked at setting up the control cable/sat.setup again but the screen shows Cable w/o box -not required- and it wont let me change this.

You are not supposed to change this. If you are the same Mike that I think you are with a UK TiVo then I have given you the OzTiVo USA image, which like explained works fine on a UK TiVo. The "problem" (for want of a better word) is you have to remember that the OzTiVo software is at best a hack of the USA software and as such there are quite a lot of menu wording and options that DO NOT APPLY and for that matter DO NOT WORK outside the USA.

One of these options is the "Cable w/o box -not required-" input selection. From what you have done so far you have done the correct thing. What you have to remember is that "cable" is referring to USA cable TV network and has NOTHING to do with trying to tune your FTA TV signal. You have to bear in mind that this is only an input placeholder and the fact you cannot change the setting is normal and nothing to do with actually trying to tune your channels.

I have a feeling your actual problem is going to be one of three things:

1. You are not picking the right channel lineup for your area.

2. You do not have a valid channel lineup for your area.

3. Your TV signal is too weak for the TiVo to receive it.

In regards to point 1, I am not familiar with Tasmania but I do know when I was there 20 years ago it was very hilly. This means that for adequate TV coverage quite a lot of "translator" or "repeater" stations would be dotted around the place. If, for example, you picked "Hobart Analogue FTA" are you sure that pick is right for the channels/frequencies for your locale or are you receiving the stations on different frequencies (ie through a "translator")? Also as hinted the TiVo is NOT digital as far as the PAL tuner is concerned so DO NOT pick any of the "digital" lineups.

In regards to point 2, this is similar to point 1 but you simply will not have a valid lineup of channels for your area. Remember, as I once said to you, TiVo outside UK/USA is NOT a commercial product so it relies heavily on user input. If that means you do not have a lineup valid for your locale you will need to create and submit one to the emulator (details on www.oztivo.com for this) or at the very least you will need to telnet into your TiVo and by using "palmod_config" you fine tune another lineup to your particular TV transmitter frequencies.

In regards to point 3, you MUST have a very good signal for the TiVo to adequately function. If you currently get a snowy picture then it is more than likely the TiVo simply cannot lock onto a valid video signal.

Hope some of that helps.

[mikepy]

Thanks Darren :)
Yes it explains a lot BUT as a complete novice at hacking a TIVO i first of all need to know how to use my tivoweb connection to get to a bash prompt and then some simple instructions how to run and use palmod_config.

The only options for the channels on guided setup was Hobart Analogue FTA so that is the first problem.
if i can learn how to get into my Tivo and change that then i might get it sorted.

Hope some kind soul will help me

Mike

[Darren King]

Running palmod_config is not done from TiVoWEB.

First of all you will need to use a telnet program to get the bash prompt. Unfortunately Windows does not help us as their telnet program is broken. Therefore do a quick Google for a freeware program called "putty" and use that.

Secondly you are going to need to ascertain the IP address that your TiVo is currently running on. If this is DHCP then you will need to go into your router and deduce what this is. The current R1.4 image that I gave you will NOT help here as the mail message reporting the IP address is broken. There is a workaround to this but it's a catch 22 as you need to have telnet access in the first place to be able to make the change!

Thirdly once you get a bash prompt you then simply type palmod_config and make the necessary fine tune adjustments and save them.

As I also touched on a while ago by phone the first and second step can be avoided if you don't know how to do that by simply plugging a 3.5mm to DB9 serial lead from the TiVo to your PC and using a terminal program (like hyperterm for example) at 9600baud 8N1 parity. However given you do not have a serial lead then that makes it a little hard too unfortunately. If you are really stuck and handy with a soldering iron the details on how to make one are in the hardware section of www.oztivo.com or I sell proper factory assembled leads in the spare parts section of my website.

[mikepy]

Thanks Darren.
I have now got the ip address and the tivo prompt in putty.
i then went through the menus to "Fine Tuning"
this sets up default channel 0 and I have entered the new frequency but it just clears the screen and the same screen comes back. ie to setup channel 0 again.
it also says to hit x to exit but this doesnt work either so i'm assuming i have to set up "putty"?

any ideas?

Mike

[Darren King]

Hi Mike


i'm assuming i have to set up "putty"?

No. If you can get into palmod_config (which you are) then no you have PuTTY working and established a telnet session.


i then went through the menus to "Fine Tuning"
this sets up default channel 0 and I have entered the new frequency but it just clears the screen and the same screen comes back. ie to setup channel 0 again. it also says to hit x to exit

It does not sound like you are doing it correctly. You have to FIRST tell it the channel you want to fine tune (ie 2,7,9,10,whatever) and THEN it will ask you for the new frequency (ie Channel 7 is default 182250KHz frequency). You need to enter in the correct frequency. After you do this you should instantly see a picture on the TiVo and palmod_config will repeat back to you the new frequency you have entered.

Do this for all your desired channels and then remember to save before exiting palmod_config to make all the changes stick.

[mikepy]

Hi Darren,
when i type palmod_config i get an error "Unable to open palmod interface (-1). Any changes
made will not take effect until TiVo is rebooted.
Press any key to continue."
i press a key and palmod seems to work offering me this menu
Palmod Configuration Tool (v1.13)

1. Picture Settings
2. Audio Settings
3. Tuner Settings
4. Other Settings
5. Save settings and exit
6. Exit without saving

Choice:

I enter 3 and get

Tuner Settings [currently: Samsung/]

1. Philips Tuner
2. Samsung/ALPS Tuner
3. Select Frequency Table
4. Fine Tuning
5. RF Output Channel
6. Return to main menu

I press 4 and get

Fine Tuning

1. Display Current Settings
2. Fine Tune Channel
3. Return to previous menu

i press 2 and get

Fine tuning channel 0.
Default frequency is: 0 KHz
A value of zero will remove the entry.
Enter a new frequency [currently 0 KHz] or 'x' when done:
and when i enter a value it just loops continuously to this menu again

I noticed the tuner was set to samsung so i altered it to Phillips and then tried again the only difference being that it says the default frequency is 4625KHz

eg
Fine tuning channel 0.
Default frequency is: 46250 KHz
A value of zero will remove the entry.
Enter a new frequency [currently 46250 KHz] or 'x' when done:


i dont see what i am doing wrong>

thanks again for your help
Mike

[petestrash]

No. If you can get into palmod_config (which you are) then no you have PuTTY working and established a telnet session.

Darren, he is using putty to setup a telnet connection.

It is important to disable 'Return key sends Telnet New Line instead of ^M' when using putty with with palmod or the changes won't stick.



If you are using PuTTy as your telnet client, you will need to disable ‘Return key sends telnet New Line instead of ^M’ in the Connection settings.

From the System menu select ‘Change Settings…’.
Click on ‘Connection’ in the Category window.
Deselect ‘Return key sends telnet New Line instead of ^M’.
Click the Apply button

You can get the whole guide here 'ThepalmodUserGuide.pdf' (http://minnie.tuhs.org/twiki/pub/Software/LatestPalModSeries1/ThepalmodUserGuide.pdf)

Regards,

Peter.

[Darren King]

It is important to disable 'Return key sends Telnet New Line instead of ^M' when using putty with with palmod or the changes won't stick.

Ta. Forgot about that one.

[mikepy]

thanks
that seems to work - when i've got some more time i'll try it properly and hope that it works.

thanks again

mike

[mikepy]

hi
Just tried it but its still not working when i enter the channel no' i get the frequency change menu

Fine tuning channel 36.
Default frequency is: 591250 KHz
A value of zero will remove the entry.
Enter a new frequency [currently 591250 KHz] or 'x' when done:

but when i enter new frequency it just keeps looping back to same menu without the frequency changing?

mike

[petestrash]

Did you restart putty after disabling 'Return key sends Telnet New Line instead of ^M'.

The change won't take place until you open a new session.

Peter.

[mikepy]

Hi Pete
Well when i alter that setting in the Telnet section i dont see any way to save it and when i restart putty it always defaults back to original setting!

It does seem to work though as it does allow me to get further into the menu's and allows me to enter the channel no' which i couldn't do before.
Unfortunately thats as far as it goes as it then wont accept the new frequencies.
I've read the Palmod manual but that didn't help.

Thanks

Mike

[mikepy]

update
I have found out how to save a session and now that bit works but still got the same problem regarding entering the frequencies

Mike

[Darren King]

Hi Mike

Can you give us an example of the relevant figures you are plugging in when trying to change the frequency? I ask just on the offchance it might not like the values more than anything else. If we can see what you are attempting to do then that might give a clue.

[petestrash]

when you make a change does the freq shown in the square brackets change ?

'Enter a new frequency [currently 591250 KHz] or 'x' when done:'

Also while on the fine tune screen check your preferences that 'Return key sends Telnet New Line instead of ^M' is definately deselected.

Peter.

[mikepy]

Ok thanks both for your replies

I have checked the setting and that is definitely OK


Fine tuning channel 34.
Default frequency is: 569250 KHz
A value of zero will remove the entry.
Enter a new frequency [currently 569250 KHz] or 'x' when done:

The [currently 569250 KHz] does not change whatever i do
i've tried all sorts of numbers but even when i try a very close number like 569200 nothing changes.

I know this sounds daft but could it be my keyboard? i'm using a laptop BTW

Mike

[petestrash]

The numbers do show as you type them in though ?

If your using a windows laptop, you could try using hyperterminal instead of putty to see if you get different results.

Other then that, I'm out of ideas.

Peter.

[mikepy]

hi

yes numbers do show up!

i've had a quick look at hyperterminal

having a job to see how it works though :(

Mike

[mikepy]

hi pete

Tried Hyperterminal and got exactly the same results!

i'm stuck!

Mike

[mikepy]

Hi
reading through the palmod user guide it mentions about uprading palmod and says to make sure the Tivo is in read/write mode !
i tried the command in the guide and got this

[TiVo [p0] ~]# mknod /dev/palmod c 125 0

mknod: /dev/palmod: Read-only file system

should i have altered this mode before i started? and if so how do i do it please?

mike

[petestrash]

You don't need to make the the system rw just to use palmod_config.

We are assuming you are running the oztivo US r1.4 image as Darren said in the 2nd message. When you first start palmod_config what version number is shown at the top of the screen.

Peter

[Darren King]

We are assuming you are running the oztivo US r1.4 image as Darren said in the 2nd message.

Mike certainly is. Latest (20050524). I just imaged his hard drive, ensured it booted as far as the Guided Setup welcome screen and popped it back in the post.

I didn't run palmod_config in the CD install menu or anything like that. The only thing I did do from here (like I do for everyone) is configure the network which is usually done to simply randomize the MAC address and noting else.

[mikepy]

As i said early on I get this error message i get when i start Palmod

Unable to open palmod interface (-1). Any changes
made will not take effect until TiVo is rebooted.
Press any key to continue...

is that usual ?
perhaps thats got something to do with the problem?

Thanks again for your help

Mike

[petestrash]

As i said early on I get this error message i get when i start Palmod

Unable to open palmod interface (-1). Any changes
made will not take effect until TiVo is rebooted.
Press any key to continue...

I missed that in your earlier post and also the version number I now see.

I have not seen this error before, but quite likely is the cause of your problems.

It might be an idea to post this problem onto the oztivo mailing list, it is read by a much larger audience and perhaps someone there has had this problem before.

Peter

[Lurker]

I also get that error message, I am using latest 1.4 and UK tivo so maybe it is a combination of things issue. I press enter a couple of times and the Palmod menus appear and it is all go from there.

I had a blonde monment Sunday night - my son was hogging my PC playing Day of Defeat so I dragged my Tivo downstairs and plugged it into the TV his Xbox is on as there is also an aerail socket there, stuck Tivo network cable in laptop and figured on sitting down, not connected to Interweb (which is upstairs) but just figure out guide data, FTA channels etc - but no connection through telnet. Then it twigged - cable from Tivo to Laptop with no switch inbetweeen and no crossover! DOH! Gave up, drank some alcohol and brought an old dusty switch in from work today..... :D

[petestrash]

Ok, maybe its a UK tivo issue.

Lurker, have you tried changing the values in fine tuning and do they stick ?

Peter.

[Lurker]

Not tried fiune tuning yet. Needed to get switch so I could plug tivo into better aerial downstairs and hyperterm using laptop.

I think there are a number of transmitters that transmit FTA terrestrial in Auckland - so I want to find which ones give the good signal before I fine tune.

Besides been working hard and not had time to play tinkertivo

[Lurker]

Oh but I did alter other things such as pixel width and I *think* they stuck

[tenty]

Google is your friend....

From: http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/oztivo/2005-January/021177.html



Hi Keith,
I also got Palmod working after removing the conf file. I really like
the real-time capability and the separate setting for various video
sources. The error message I got :"Unable to open palmod interface. Any
change made will not take effect until TiVo is rebooted." The conf
program did not exit though. I did reboot after the mknod command and
before using Palmod. Please note that I am running the original v3 Tivo
here in Hoalland and I did have the NZ palmod installed for trying out
various setting. Perhaps the conf file of that version is not upgradeable?
Dick

Keith Wilkinson wrote:

> Hi Simon,
>
> There may be a step missing in the instructions but, if there is, it's
> nothing to do with removing the configuration file. The new
> palmod_config should happily read the older configuration files and
> save them as the new type. The user guide mentions this.
>
> Removing palmod.conf should have no effect whatsoever as to whether
> /dev/palmod can be opened. The way the code works is that it tries to
> open /dev/palmod and, if it can't, the program exits. The existence of
> the configuration file at this point is irrelevant.
>
> It's possible that after using the mknod command you may have to
> reboot but it was a while ago that I set mine up and I don't remember
> if I did or not. TiVo was getting a lot of reboots at around that time.
>
> Regards,
> Keith


So what does this mean in short? ....
type in mv /etc/palmod.conf /etc/palmod.conf.backup
if this says read only, then type in rw and try again
then type in palmod_config

once finished make sure you type ro and I believe you have to reboot to make sure changes take effect if I read that right.

Let me know how you go!
Cheers

[petestrash]

This shouldn't apply to a freshly imaged tivo running r1.4. Certainly not US one's anyway. It was a problem caused by an upgrade of palmod, and the newer version not being backwards compatible with the one released in r1.3.

But at this point I guess it's worth trying on a UK tivo to see if it makes any difference.

Peter.

[Darren King]

......This means that for adequate TV coverage quite a lot of "translator" or "repeater" stations would be dotted around the place. If, for example, you picked "Hobart Analogue FTA" are you sure that pick is right for the channels/frequencies for your locale or are you receiving the stations on different frequencies (ie through a "translator")?

It turns out that the Tasmania lineup only had Hobart which does not suit Mike. Consequently as of yesterday there is now a Burnie-Devonport lineup and I will work on some others as time permits (Launceston being the next one).