Tivo freezes at start up

[Phil_C]

Hello All
I have been using the TIVO for a few months now and it has been working perfectly however recently the power to the house went off and now the Tivo will not boot up. It gets to the "Your PTV Receiver is starting up. Please wait a moment" screen and will not progress any further.
The HDD appears to be fine as it is recognised in Device Manager by my computer running Windows XP.
I have tried to re-image the drive however with the latest image installer I get a "Drive Not Ready - System Halted" error from the Intel Boot Agent. If I use an older image then it works OK but I did not try to install the image as a) I need the later version and b) I would prefer not to re-image the drive as I have saved shows I would like to view. Unfortunately I do not have another drive to try.

Does anyone know the solution to this problem? What stage of the boot process is the TIVO at when that screen is viewed? Could the problem be hardware related and not the hard drive image?

Regards

Phil

[Darren King]

Hi Phil

The "Your PTV Receiver is starting up. Please wait a moment" screen is also known as the Boot PROM screen and is actually in a chip on the motherboard. You would even see this screen with NO hard disk connected.

As such you are either faced with a few scenarios here:

1. The IDE controller on the TiVo motherboard has failed. Unlikely however.

2. The power supply in the TiVo has failed in a fashion that still allows power for kicking the TiVo into life but not fully. Possible, but unlikely.

3. The hard disk has died. Most likely. Even if your PC BIOS can recognise it that is no certainty the drive is being read and therefore you won't get past the Boot PROM screen on the TiVo. Hard drives that are working fine and appear OK can fail after a power cycle.

My suggestion, like I always advise, is to get another test hard disk and see if you can restore operation of your TiVo with that. It can be anything from 1GB upwards. If the TiVo still shows no signs of improvement after testing with another hard disk then you can then make a decision on what to do about getting the TiVo repaired.

I understand you don't have a test hard disk but at the same time don't want to reimage your current one however you are going to have to do one or the other before an assessment on what the next step is. There is no other option - unless of course you have another TiVo to drop the current hard disk in which I'm tipping you do not otherwise you would have tried that already.

[Phil_C]

Hello Darren
Thanks for the information. I sort of suspected the outcome would be I would lose all info on the drive but I was hoping there would be a positive outcome :). I did not realize that the image would work on such a small hard drive. I have a 6gb drive that I will perform the test on tomorrow. If it is the Maxtor HDD then this is the second one that has failed on me now (one in the TIVO and one in my PC). I think in the future I will stick with Seagate.

Regards

Phil

[Darren King]

Hi Phil

OK no problems. Sorry to hear you have had problems with Maxtor's as I have a TiVo running dual 120GB Maxtor units since I started with OzTiVo back in late 2003.

Yes the OzTiVo image will work with small hard disks so the 6GB will be perfect for the test. Give it a go and let us know what happens.

[petestrash]

I have tried to re-image the drive however with the latest image installer I get a "Drive Not Ready - System Halted" error from the Intel Boot Agent. If I use an older image then it works OK but I did not try to install the image

If you are having a problem with the new installer running on your hardware, you could use your existing boot disk and just install the new image from ozTiVo_HDRX12_3.0-20050524.mfs (http://minnie.tuhs.org/TiVo/files/images/ozTiVo_HDRX12_3.0-20050524.mfs).

You will still have to manually setup networking etc using this method.

Peter.

[Phil_C]

Hello All
I found the problem with the newer installer. The CD was corrupted. I created a new CD and reimaged the drive and all appears to be working now. I don't know why the original image locked up but I guess these things happen.
Thanks again

Regards

Phil

[Phil_C]

Hello All
Looks like I spoke too soon. I turned the TV on tonight and the TIVO said that it had overheated and had shut down. It said to turn off the TIVO and restart it which I proceeded to do. It is now at the same stage as it was in the first post. I will try the 6gb drive in it and see what happens. I am expecting a replacement 200gb Maxtor drive soon (only took 8 months for the replacement) so if this next experiment works I will install it in the TIVO.

Regards

Phil

[Darren King]

Phil,

A TiVo will only show that message with the new image if the internal temperature got above 60C which is WAY too hot for normal operation.

Now to give you some background, I test TiVo's all the time and as one of the things I do in my stringent test procedure I deliberately pull the plug on the fan to stop circulation and install a heat pad that gets the internal case temperature up to a stable 55C which I maintain for 24 hours of testing. A good TiVo will not stress at this test. As a comparison, without any added heat source a TiVo with no fan operationg in a "free air" environment (that is not in a cabinet) will only get to around 48C.

I can tell you without a doubt that a TiVo running the latest image has also done a fix the thermo fan control software therefore your fan will spin faster above 35C thus drawing more cool air in. Your TiVo in a well ventilated area SHOULD NOT get anywhere near the point of shutting down due to heat.

Given yours is, it suggests to me that your problems are stemming from poor ventilation which sounds like it has had a detrimental effect to your TiVo over a period of time. If you are lucky it should only be a dying hard disk. If not then you might be in a spot of bother.

The reason why you have not seen this overheating message before (but nonetheless your TiVo has been SCREAMING for some ventilation) is that in the old software the shutdown threshold was 80C which was/is WAY too high for most electronic components which usually have a normal operating temperature range of 0C to 70C. This old 80C threshold for shutdown is what the default is on the USA image. Earlier this year it was discovered how to alter it and some more realistic figures were settled on and fan spin control improved.

Yes, try the 6GB hard disk and get a new hard disk for the TiVo. But to stop future problems I would also be considering maybe a ventilated cabinet - or whatever else it is that is making your TiVo get so hot.

Maybe you have the TiVo sitting on another bit of gear that is getting warm perhaps? The air intakes are the square holes under the TiVo at the front. Drawing already warm/hot air in through this air intake is no good for the TiVo either.

If you are really interested in the whole cooling writeup you are welcome to look at my document here: http://minnie.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/view/Hardware/CoolingS1Units

The section on TiVo placement to assist cooling might be of benefit to you.

[Phil_C]

Hello Darren
Thanks for the reply and the information. However there are a few things that do not add up.
Firstly I am running the latest image and have been since I got the TIVO working after you did the PAL mod.
Secondly the TIVO is located in an open front cabinet with plenty of air space between it and the walls. The nearest heat source is a computer monitor that is located on a shelf above it but has not been used in several months.
Thirdly when the error message was received the TIVO was removed from the cabinet and the external case was removed.
Finally the ambient room temperature since I have been using the TIVO has not gone over 25 degrees.
Is there anything else that could cause the overheat message such as a software failure?

I have imaged the 6gb drive and I will let you know how it goes.

Regards

Phil

[zollymonsta]

Have you checked the fan at the back of the TiVo is actually working?

[Darren King]

Phil,

Unfortunately as I say on my website I am not a software expert so I cannot say regarding if the software failing would cause it. I would say from a non-expert point of view it is highly unlikely, because although it may not add up to you, from a hardware technical perspective (mine) I have not seen a faulty temperature sensor on any TiVo motherboard to date. Furthermore a faulty or misreported temperature sensor due to either the temperature sensor failing at hardware level or a software glitch will not stop a TiVo booting past the Boot PROM screen. A faulty temperature sensor will still allow the hard disk to boot as far as the "Starting Up....." OzTiVo screen (ie the screen AFTER the Boot PROM screen) but will stop the TiVo with the overheating warning message. The fact that yours won't even get past the Boot PROM screen indicates something more serious at a hardware level.

As Zollymonsta said I would be checking that the fan is actually working as a starting point. Further to this you can monitor the temperature yourself either from the "info" page via TiVoWEB or simply in the System Information screen from the TiVo on-screen menus. What temperature does it report?


The point I am making here is that it is pointing to a defective hard drive and the major killers of hard disks is overheating. Given your TiVo has reported an excessive temperature it is all pointing to a temperature related issue to me why youhave had what looks like a premature hard disk failure.

Until you can say the following two things there is not much else I can offer:

1. Does your TiVo temperature report getting anywhere near 60C

2 Does the 6GB hard disk still give bootup problems (and/or temperature warnings) or does it fix your issues?

[Phil_C]

Hello zollymonsta
Yes the fan is spinning :)

Darren
The TIVO is currently running at 27C. I have never been able to access my TIVO remotely as I have been unable to find its IP address. The IP address reported after each bootup is 0.0.0.0 which is an invalid IP address.
One thing I did notice with the 6gig drive is the menus appear faster and guided setup ran faster. I guess time will tell over the next few days wether or not the 6gb drive works successfully.

Regards

Phil

[Darren King]

I have never been able to access my TIVO remotely as I have been unable to find its IP address. The IP address reported after each bootup is 0.0.0.0 which is an invalid IP address.

Correct. And it is a well documented bug that you can fix:
http://minnie.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/view/Install/KnownIssuesCurrentImageRelease


One thing I did notice with the 6gig drive is the menus appear faster and guided setup ran faster. I guess time will tell over the next few days wether or not the 6gb drive works successfully.

Indeed time will tell. It is also important you keep an eye on that temperature. 27C is good but it will creep up a little. Anything past 50C with a well ventilated TiVo and the fan spinning is a concern.

Another thing to consider is that if the old hard disk has failed because the bearings are getting tight this will generate quite a bit of heat. If the hard disk is mounted in the bay closest to the motherboard it is almost sitting over the temperature sensor. See the document I linked to in a previous email about where the temp sensor is.

[Phil_C]

Hello All
Well after several days of running the TIVO it is still working perfectly (Except for the noise of the old hard drive :) ) I checked the temperature of the TIVO several times and it was never more than 29 degrees.

I have finally received a replacement for the failed Maxtor 9 months after a warranty request was submitted. So I will use it in the TIVO.

Regards

Phil