Tivo losing sound - comes back after reboot

[chrishowell]

In the last week or so, I've found that the Tivo is losing sound for TV programmes.

This includes live TV and recordings. The Tivo sound effects are still present and there is sound from the STB that is connected to the Tivo.

A reboot will restore sound but this seems to be happening every couple of days.

I'm running an S1 SA Philips Tivo with release 1.4. The machine has been running pretty well since it was imaged and the only thing I've been doing different lately is using vserver to extract files via Tivotool.

Anyone got any advice?

[Darren King]

Losing sound can be hardware related and in the symptom you describe IF it is hardware related then it will be the Micronas sound chip which can be repaired. However firstly my advice is to grab a small hard disk (2GB and up is fine) and run it as a test hard disk with nothing more than the standard oztivo image and see if you can replicate the problem. If you can then it is 99.9% hardware.

[zollymonsta]

I would be interested to see if your problem is the same as mine.

Next time you lose sound on live tv, can you change channel and see if the sound comes back? THis is the problem I occasionally get (changing the channel brings the sound back). It's also recorded like that. Darren may remember me trying to find where this fault was too (a few months back). Couldn't pin it down at all. And it also hadn't done it for a while (I did a re-image with the latest image when it was released).

The tests I did were with a small hard drive, Could not replicate the problem.
Also the output from the power supply was checked with a multimeter and all was ok.

No biggie really, doesn't bother me too much. But always good to find out why it's doing it.

[chrishowell]

Thanks for the responses.

I'll keep an eye on the issue and will try and give the new image on a spare HDD a try but may not be able to do this for a week or two.

If it does need a repair Darren, would you also be able to fix the LED on the front? Doesn't show when the unit it recording.

zollymonsta, the sound doesn't come back after changing channels. I have to reboot my Tivo to get sound back.

Thanks,

Chris

[Cods]

G'day, I have exactly the same problem as zollymonsta, been happening pretty much ever since I plugged the TiVo in after getting it, details as follows:
- only occurs on the ABC, never on any other channels
- intermittent fault, have not noticed any patterns
- I have observed it occur only when TiVo records, and seems equally likely to occur both
a. when TiVo has to change channels from another channel (sound always fine on other channels) to record on ABC, and/or
b. when TiVo already on ABC and not recording (and sound already OK) and then starts a recording
- can't remember it ever occurring when I change channel to ABC manually
- when the problem occurs and I happen to be watching, a manual change of channel away from ABC and then back to ABC fixes it (but only for that occurrence)

Background:
- TiVo bought from US, sent direct to Darren King for installation of a tuner & imaging and install of a large HDD (who did a great job, great support afterward, highly recommended!)
- Initial reception problems traced to crap antenna & crap house cabling, fixed with lush new antenna, quad-shielded cable and f-connectors all the way along signal path

If anyone can help, my wife, David Attenborough and I would be very appreciative!

Cheers,
Cods

[Darren King]

Cods,

The intermittent sound loss on one channel only is still related to antenna problems and/or tuning. It is because the Micronas chip (ie the "Mark 2" sound decoder) cannot attain a fully clean sound carrier in the detection phase (ie when the TiVo initially switches channels) and therefore mutes the audio. Given it is intermittent means sometimes you have acceptible sound carrier levels, and sometimes not.

My suggestion is to firstly run palmod_config and fine tune channel 2 a bit, and then if still having problems re-check the antenna install for a balanced reception over all channels received. This is best done with a proper field strength meter rather than "eye and ear" testing if you can get hold of one.

[Cods]

Thanks Darren, I'll give palmod_config a go and tweak the tuning on the ABC this weekend, and see if that does the trick. If not, I'll get the antenna bloke back to do some balancing.

Not a complaint, but the Micronas / Mark 2 tuner seems, in my uneducated opinion, to be a tad, well, picky. As noted, my original antenna hardware / position / orientation / cabling really did suck quite badly, and it seems pretty fair that even though I'm LOS to the Mt Coot-tha Tx'rs, I had a crap signal input to the TiVo. It's worthy of note though that the Sony TV tuner and the dodgy $50 VCR tuner handled it a lot better than the TiVo tuner.

Will do some tweaking and see what results.

Thanks for the swift advice Darren - anyone reading this who hasn't already worked it out: Darren is your man for TiVo work!

Advert finishes ;)

Cheers,

[Darren King]

Not a complaint, but the Micronas / Mark 2 tuner seems, in my uneducated opinion, to be a tad, well, picky. It's worthy of note though that the Sony TV tuner and the dodgy $50 VCR tuner handled it a lot better than the TiVo tuner.

That's a software issue which, unfortunately, I play no part in. On the whole there are very few people experiencing the same problems and I still maintain that in your case, like I said many months ago, it may well be too MUCH signal distoring the sound carrier given your very close proximity to the transmitters. Thinking of which, you were also one of the very first people with the Mark 2 modififcation and I think I remember advising to keep up-to-date with the latest palmod software releases. If you have not done so I suggest replacing palmod.o and palmod_config with the latest versions that also help in this area of sound loss.

Also it is worthy of note that I understand your comment but your dodgy $50 VCR or your Sony does not employ the same components as the TiVo so it is really comparing apples to oranges.

[thomson]

It might also be interesting to see what palmod is doing at the time that these problems occur. If you could do a "cat /var/log/kernel | grep PALMOD" and post the relevant lines (ie the version number and messages around the time that the issue occured) then it might help to determine what could be going wrong. I am more than happy to provide an alternative palmod and make as many changes as required to resolve any issue - and once we determine what/if code changes are required then these could be rolled into the official (OzTivo) version.

[Darren King]

Thanks Thompson. Since all the work was done in tweaking palmod to resolve the initial problems there has been seldom any issues with sound loss, and try as I might I cannot re-create them with my antenna setup. The only lead I can tell you is that every now and then a grotty audi carrier gets detected wrong and this causes loss of sound.

Because it is a check only done once when the channel is changed (that I know of) if it don't detect a clean audio carrier then this problem can result. Is there a way for palmod to test the sound carrier at very regular intervals in an effort to combat this problem without the micronas introducing any annoying glitches into the sound?

Cheers

[thomson]

if it don't detect a clean audio carrier then this problem can result.
I am hoping to work around the cause... if it is auto-muting then we just need to stop that happening. All I need is a little information from somebody experiencing the problems... then I can customise a palmod with a little more debugging information, nail the cause and find a solution.

[fotski]

Hi Guys,

I'm just experiencing the exact issue.
Older programs I have recorded are working fine but programs recorded from last night have NO sound.
The tivo sounds work.
I have restarted the recorder(from the menu) but that has not helped.
Any advice?
Thompson am happy to help with the info gathering - What do you need from me?

Cheers,
Fotski

[Darren King]

Hi. You are going to have to be a little more specific with your setup.

If you are getting no sound from either a PAL tuner (if fitted) *AND* the A/V inputs then it is not the same problem Thompson and myself are talking about.

[thomson]

Thompson am happy to help with the info gathering - What do you need from me?

The command is:
grep PALMOD /var/log/kernel

It helps to know the start times of the recordings that are soundless.

[fotski]

Hi,

No PAL tuner here. Original US tuner still in Tivo.

I use foxtel connected via A/V cables.

I grep the log and see what I find

[zollymonsta]

Palmod should still spit out the needed info.

Palmod is used even if you dont use the tuner.

[arvesolland]

Hi guys,

I've posted here before about sound cutting out on my TIVO.
I am still having this problem, even though it has been less and less, but it seems completely random when it occurs.
Also, when in occurs in my recordings, i hear a little sound as the sound dissapears...a little 'clonk'....and after that the video of the recording starts having problems as well with some artifacts and sometimes jerky playback.

When sound has cut out, it dosent help to change channels ( I think,,,,,,tried it once and as far as i can remember it didnt work, wil try again next time...but i normally only discover the sound is gone when I am watching a recording, and the tivo may already have rebooted o the sound is back on in live tv...)

I've tried doing the grep PALMOD from the kernel log, but I get nothing...but I am restarting every night at 2am,so that might effect the log.....I will try my best to do a dump of the log when I discover that the sound is gone.

Also, I am only using a Austar Digital STB for input, no FTA tuner.

I would just love to know what causes this issue, as I am really starting to get into my tivo's possibilities, i only want to rely on it as well :)

Thanks

Regards

Arve :D

[Darren King]

G'day, I have exactly the same problem as zollymonsta, been happening pretty much ever since I plugged the TiVo in after getting it, details as follows:
- only occurs on the ABC, never on any other channels
- intermittent fault, have not noticed any patterns
- I have observed it occur only when TiVo records, and seems equally likely to occur both
a. when TiVo has to change channels from another channel (sound always fine on other channels) to record on ABC, and/or
b. when TiVo already on ABC and not recording (and sound already OK) and then starts a recording
- can't remember it ever occurring when I change channel to ABC manually
- when the problem occurs and I happen to be watching, a manual change of channel away from ABC and then back to ABC fixes it (but only for that occurrence)

Background:
- TiVo bought from US, sent direct to Darren King for installation of a tuner & imaging and install of a large HDD (who did a great job, great support afterward, highly recommended!)
- Initial reception problems traced to crap antenna & crap house cabling, fixed with lush new antenna, quad-shielded cable and f-connectors all the way along signal path

If anyone can help, my wife, David Attenborough and I would be very appreciative!

Cheers,
Cods

Just as an update:

NOTE: This issue is only relevant for TiVo's with the "Mark 2" stereo sound modification (that is, the sound processor chip change)

It was discovered a month or so ago that there was indeed a way to make the TiVo perform better in this department.

What was discovered is that if the TiVo went to record something on the SAME channel it could lose sound because the palmod software did not re-check the sound standard. In some circumstances this does cause an issue. The original palmod software was designed to only check the sound standard on the change of a channel as in theory this should not need re-checking if the channel does not change.... well, it turns out that it DOES need to be checked again to cater for instances of signal fluctuations and other abnormalities which can happen with wireless signals.

Subsequently a fix has been tested by some people exeriencing this issue (I could never get it to happen to me!) and it works. The fix was implemented by Keith Wilkinson to the Australian version of palmod and the relevant new palmod package with some other cosmetic changes is available on the oztivo website.

Or I have just the palmod.o file which is compatible with the current one on the R1.5 20051128 oztivo image which I have attached to this message. Simply rename the current palmod.o file in the /lib/modules directory (linux command for renaming is: mv palmod.o palmod.bak) and copy on this one. DO NOT try and simply copy on the new palmod.o over the old one. Either rename the old one or delete it first. Copy on the new one and then reboot the TiVo.

This fix is not required for NZ people or anyone running a TiVo without the Mark 2 stereo chip with a PAL tuner.

The next OzTiVo image release will have this fix as standard.

Cheers

[Cods]

I applied the new palmod.o to my TiVo on Friday, and as far as I can see it's fixed the problem! Not a sound-lost glitch to be seen all weekend, where normally there would be at least a couple of useless recordings during that period of time.

Great work! Thanks very much to everyone responsible for the fix!

Cheers,
Cods

[Darren King]

Hi Cods. Good stuff! Glad it fixed the issue. :)

[zollymonsta]

Sounds like you have faulty blocks on the HD (won't be picked up via a Windows scan, but the TiVo sees them and doesn't like it).

I have this problem also. I got around it by keeping recordings (I have two) that show this behaviour. Set them to 'keep until i delete' and renamed them to 'Do Not Delete'. This means these 'bad blocks' in the TiVos eyes are in use and won't be re-used (unless you delete these files).

I haven't seen this behaviour again since I did this (3+ months ago).

Cheers,
ZollyMonsta



Hi guys,

I've posted here before about sound cutting out on my TIVO.
I am still having this problem, even though it has been less and less, but it seems completely random when it occurs.
Also, when in occurs in my recordings, i hear a little sound as the sound dissapears...a little 'clonk'....and after that the video of the recording starts having problems as well with some artifacts and sometimes jerky playback.

When sound has cut out, it dosent help to change channels ( I think,,,,,,tried it once and as far as i can remember it didnt work, wil try again next time...but i normally only discover the sound is gone when I am watching a recording, and the tivo may already have rebooted o the sound is back on in live tv...)

I've tried doing the grep PALMOD from the kernel log, but I get nothing...but I am restarting every night at 2am,so that might effect the log.....I will try my best to do a dump of the log when I discover that the sound is gone.

Also, I am only using a Austar Digital STB for input, no FTA tuner.

I would just love to know what causes this issue, as I am really starting to get into my tivo's possibilities, i only want to rely on it as well :)

Thanks

Regards

Arve :D

[sikkie]

I have exactly the same sound problem in South Africa (PAL-I) after doing a PAL conversion with the Micronas chip replaced as well.

The fix was implemented by Keith Wilkinson to the Australian version of palmod and the relevant new palmod package with some other cosmetic changes is available on the oztivo website.
The Palmod files in the software area seems to be older than this post.
Where can I get hold of the software to see if I can make it work for PAL-I?
Any support will be appreciated.

[petestrash]

I don't have a copy of the current source, but I have attached the latest palmod.o

Peter.

[Darren King]

Current executables for Aus/NZ versions of palmod won't work properly for South Africa. Although the South African sound standard is (like NZ) NICAM, the sound carrier offset is different for them at 6.0MHz rather than Aus/NZ of 5.5MHz.

[T1voZA]

Current executables for Aus/NZ versions of palmod won't work properly for South Africa. Although the South African sound standard is (like NZ) NICAM, the sound carrier offset is different for them at 6.0MHz rather than Aus/NZ of 5.5MHz.Based on the NzStereoSupport (http://www.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/view/FAQ/NzStereoSupport) wiki page, I was of the impression that "Australia use Zweiton Stereo (5.742MHz offset) whereas New Zealand use NICAM (with a 5.85MHz offset)"?

Would it be a complex operation to add support for the 6.0MHz offset? At present palmod is able to receive sound for the South African channels, it's just that it tends to drop out in some instances.

[Darren King]

You're referring to the stereo offset frequencies. I'm referring to the base (mono) offsets.

As far as I am aware there is already a modded palmod for South Africa which works the PAL tuner fine. There is no point adding any code to reprogram the 3410D micronas because people in South Africa need not swap the existing 3430G micronas for the 3410D given you have NICAM and not Zweiton stereo sound standard. The best you are going to achieve with the PAL tuner mod is mono sound via the tuner with or without a 3410D chip for the same reasons NZ people can only get mono too.

This is outlined on my webpage regarding what a PAL tuner is, and I will be updating the how-to documentation shortly to reflect this because when the document was written there was no PAL tuner in use in South Africa and there was some hope that NICAM could be supported which has been since, unfortunately, ruled out.

[T1voZA]

As far as I am aware there is already a modded palmod for South Africa which works the PAL tuner fine.There is no custom version of palmod for South Africa, we use the standard oztivo palmod. The problem is that some users are experiencing sound drop outs?

[Darren King]

I did not know that. I had an email from someone who said they had distorted and/or no sound through the PAL tuner using the OzTiVo palmod and found there was a modded version for South Africa on the TiVoZA image which fixed things :confused:

If there is no modded version then at a guess (remember I am not a software guy) is you are going to have to find the instructions in the existing palmod source files that instruct the tuner to instead of using 5.5MHz as the sound carrier to instead use 6.0MHz. The technical documents for the PAL tuner show that it can be set for 5.5, 6.0 and 6.5MHz. User "Thompson" on these forums should be able to help you out.

[thomson]

There is no custom version of palmod for South Africa, we use the standard oztivo palmod. The problem is that some users are experiencing sound drop outs?

I am not aware if the source code is available for the OzTivo palmod, but the code I run will default back to Zweiton Stereo if a sound standard could not be found. This could cause sound drop-out's in bad-coverage NICAM areas.

If you have a look at line 470 (palmod.c) of the attached code (in particular the few lines commented out before it) then you will see what could be done to fix the situation. There are basically two options... we could sit in a loop trying to autodetect, or default to NICAM.

I think the whole PAL-B/G (5.5MHz offset) versus PAL-I (6.0MHz offset) is a red herring as this is only required for the RF Output support. Although if you wish to have a PAL-I (6.0MHz offset) RF Output signal then a change on line 714 (palmod.c) from 0x8a480004 to 0x8a500004 would be required.

I can recompile the source with these changes if required.

[petestrash]

To make version control easier, would it not be possible just to have the one palmod for all regions with the offsets controlled by palmod_config ?

Peter.

[T1voZA]

I did not know that. I had an email from someone who said they had distorted and/or no sound through the PAL tuner using the OzTiVo palmod and found there was a modded version for South Africa on the TiVoZA image which fixed things :confused:The TivoZA image is a modified version of the OzTiVo 1.4 image and contains the oztivo palmod 3.1.


If you have a look at line 470 (palmod.c) of the attached code (in particular the few lines commented out before it) then you will see what could be done to fix the situation. There are basically two options... we could sit in a loop trying to autodetect, or default to NICAM.Sitting in an autodetect loop may be worthwhile as in areas where there is a poor signal this could help the situation but I think the simpler and possibly better option would be to allow the user to specify their format (using palmod_config as per Peters suggestion) and when the autodetect fails, rather then defaulting to Zweiton Stereo, it could default to the users specified format. Another option could be to allow the users to specify a forced option or alternatively select autodetect which would then run in a loop.


I think the whole PAL-B/G (5.5MHz offset) versus PAL-I (6.0MHz offset) is a red herring as this is only required for the RF Output support.It's only when using RF that the audio drop-outs occur.


Although if you wish to have a PAL-I (6.0MHz offset) RF Output signal then a change on line 714 (palmod.c) from 0x8a480004 to 0x8a500004 would be required.It would be nice to be able to set the preferred setting (e.g. PAL-I, PAL-B, etc) via palmod_config. If we were to have a list of available PAL formats, could we base the audio selection on this or would it be best to leave that as a separate setting?


I can recompile the source with these changes if required.I'm more then happy to help with the compilation but if you're happy to do it then yes please as you're far more familiar with palmod than me.

Just as an aside, would it not be worth pulling out the "tuner_chans.h" file and storing the each countries settings in a separate text file? Going this route would mean that palmod doesn't need to be recompiled whenever new channels are added and users could automatically receive channel updates via the 'upgrade_oztivo' script. The palmod_config could then be adjusted to allow users to specify the file containing the tuner settings for their area.


To make version control easier, would it not be possible just to have the one palmod for all regions with the offsets controlled by palmod_config ?I think a unified version for all countries with the necessery settings configurable via palmod_config would be a great idea.

It looks like thompson has a different version to the current oztivo palmod 3.2, would be interesting to know what differences there are aside from the "Mark 2" adjustments and the "tuner_chans.h" file. Something else I spotted in thompson's palmod (not sure if it's in palmod 3.2) is the ability to set the widescreen setting via palmod_config :cool:

[Darren King]

Yes I agree a fully unified palmod would be great.

Just bear in mind that there has been a lot of tweaking with sound detection for Australian conditions as per post #18 of this thread. Before this there was a real headache of the TiVo losing complete sound when it stayed on the same channel and began to record.

I have the source for this version, included in this post, which was tweaked by Keith Wilkinson (the author of palmod in Australia) who does not frequent these forums but is on the OzTiVo email list.

This extract is what Keith had to say to me in the email that accompanied the updated source about what the important bits are relevant to squashing the sound bug I refer to in post#18 of this thread:

// do sound standard and stereo detection for MSP3410D
if (mspType == MSP3410D && channel >= 0 && a3 == 0x10000) {
if (detect) {
do {
udelay(50000); // wait a bit
I2CReadMsp(MSP_CHIP, READ_DEMOD, 0, AUTODETECT, &standard); // get detection result
} while (standard > 0x7ff); // still active?

if (standard == 0) { // was a standard found?
iicw4(MSP_CHIP, WRITE_DSP, IDENTIFICATION_MODE | 0x003f); // no, reset ident-filter
iicw4(MSP_CHIP, WRITE_DEMOD, STANDARD_SELECT | BG_DUAL_FM); // set sound standard to B/G Dual FM
iicw4(MSP_CHIP, WRITE_DEMOD, AUTO_FM | 0x0800); // select AM/FM sound
iicw4(MSP_CHIP, WRITE_DSP, I2S_SOURCE_MODE | 0x0020); // select I2S source & AM/FM stereo
udelay(100000);
printk("PALMOD: No TV sound standard was detected, default to B/G Dual FM\n");
}
else if (standard <= 0x07ff) // if a standard was found
printk("PALMOD: Sound standard %s was detected\n", soundStandard[standard]);

CheckStereoSource(); // check for stereo source
detect = 0;
}
else if (d_bypass) {
iicw4(MSP_CHIP, WRITE_DSP, IDENTIFICATION_MODE | 0x003f); // reset ident-filter
iicw4(MSP_CHIP, WRITE_DEMOD, STANDARD_SELECT | BG_DUAL_FM); // set sound standard to B/G Dual FM
iicw4(MSP_CHIP, WRITE_DEMOD, AUTO_FM | 0x0800); // select AM/FM sound
CheckStereoSource(); // check for stereo source
write_log = 0;
}
}

For the vast majority of TiVo users there is no change to how palmod operates. For the few people who are experiencing loss of sound on recordings, this does seem to fix the problem.


Apparently the last six lines of code are the vital ones regarding the bugfix.

[sikkie]

Posted by Thomson:
I can recompile the source with these changes if required.
Forgive me if I am impatient, but can we please get a compiled version with the changes. Unfortunately I do not have a Linux box with the correct set-up to be able to do it myself.
Much appreciated.

[thomson]

Forgive me if I am impatient, but can we please get a compiled version with the changes.

We really need to figure out what is going wrong as my version is not the legitimate binary but more of a "tool" to figure out what changes are required to the version being used in the distribution.

If you wish to run the attached binary and then if you experience problems try and make a record of the date/time when you think it occurred and email/post the PALMOD entries from the /var/log/kernel file. Then I can make some changes to the logic and we can test those... and if all works well then we can get Keith to test and update his version.

[sikkie]

Posted by Thomson

I think the whole PAL-B/G (5.5MHz offset) versus PAL-I (6.0MHz offset) is a red herring as this is only required for the RF Output support. Although if you wish to have a PAL-I (6.0MHz offset) RF Output signal then a change on line 714 (palmod.c) from 0x8a480004 to 0x8a500004 would be required.
Thanks for the help, but I think the above change was not done before the attached Palmod compilation. I get a perfect picture, but no sound.
In the Oz palmod version, it is on line 645.
Thanks.

[thomson]

Thanks for the help, but I think the above change was not done before the attached Palmod compilation. I get a perfect picture, but no sound.

You are correct, the previous attached compiled Palmod was more to diagnose the temporary missing sound issue as it has debugging that I use. I have attached a compiled version that should be configured for PAL-I and default to NICAM if a sound source could not be located. (NOTE: This is a different/older codebase to the one supplied with the image).

[sikkie]

Thanks a lot - installed and working, but still do not know whether it will solve all the problems.
Just an interesting point - to download and "reboot" in Puttytel does not reload completely - only a switch off and on does that?

[Darren King]

Shouldn't be. You are effectively resetting the TiVo and causing it to reload all software. Have you got a proven example (ie can you replicate it) where just issuing a "reboot" command acts differently to doing a power cycle?

[sikkie]

A good example was when I have installed the palmod.o above (renamed previous palmod to old and then ftp'd the new palmod), I reboot. I end up having no sound at all. I then switched off and on again and the sound was back!

[petestrash]

That sounds more like a flakey 8v regulator.

Peter.

[sikkie]

The same happened on different machines.

[thomson]

A good example was when I have installed the palmod.o above (renamed previous palmod to old and then ftp'd the new palmod), I reboot. I end up having no sound at all. I then switched off and on again and the sound was back!

It's handy to have the PALMOD entries from within the /var/log/kernel log file as it could point out a fault in the codebase that could be fixed concerning the missing sound.

[finethen]

I have since last night been losing sound after recording starts and I also hear a wee "briip" immediately when the sound disappears. During watching live tv through TiVo sound can drop out but returns after changing channel. This is on my Philips TiVo. Let me know if I can help track a code problem with a log file.

[petestrash]

When the problem occurs copy the info you get when you try 'grep PALMOD /var/log/kernel'.

Peter.

[finethen]

OK this is what "grep PALMOD /var/log/kernel" yields and attached is the kernel file.


[TiVo [p0] ~]# grep PALMOD /var/log/kernel
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Tuner type=1
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Frequency table=1
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: MSP3430G chip detected
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Using tuner type 1
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Horizontal resolution=544
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Horizontal shift=195
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: S-Video saturation=85
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: S-Video brightness=125
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: S-Video contrast=67
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Composite saturation=85
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Composite brightness=125
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Composite contrast=67
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: A/V input audio level=25
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Tuner saturation=85
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Tuner brightness=125
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Tuner contrast=67
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Tuner audio level=25
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Luminance delay=0
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo detection threshold=16
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: RF Output channel=60
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD: register_chrdev successful
Jan 1 00:00:21 (none) kernel: PALMOD Version 3.2 loaded successfully

[finethen]

I have swapped the drive out to an identical Darren modded machine and problem has dissappeared pointing to a hardware fault? Any ideas?

[petestrash]

Are both TIVo's using the same MSP3430G chip in thier tuner mod?

A failing 8v regulator can cause loss of sound.

Peter.

[finethen]

Yes they were both modded at the same time with the same components. How certain would you be re the regulator? Easy enough for an amateur to replace?

[thomson]

When the problem occurs copy the info you get when you try 'grep PALMOD /var/log/kernel'.

This is only handy if they are running one of my binaries (which were compiled with debug enabled) such as the one attached. Of course messing around with palmod.o can be a little risky and could cause a reboot loop unless you have a watchdog setup such as described here (http://www.forums.oztivo.net/showthread.php?t=398).

[sikkie]

I have installed the new Palmod.o for PAL-I, but the still get the same noises from time to time. The recordings also have patches of noise on it.
Not quite understanding the different PAL versions, I have the following questions:
1. How is it possible to even get sound with the sound band at 6 Mhz as to 5,5 Mhz for NZ or is the tuner good enough to pick it up?
2. Is the noise I am getting not the same as the other people were getting before the mod on the Oztivo forum and would it not disappear if I can get a compilation of both the PAL-I mod and the other mods done for the Oztivo?

Thanks a lot for all the work already done on this!

[thomson]

I have installed the new Palmod.o for PAL-I, but the still get the same noises from time to time. The recordings also have patches of noise on it.
Not quite understanding the different PAL versions, I have the following questions:
1. How is it possible to even get sound with the sound band at 6 Mhz as to 5,5 Mhz for NZ or is the tuner good enough to pick it up?
2. Is the noise I am getting not the same as the other people were getting before the mod on the Oztivo forum and would it not disappear if I can get a compilation of both the PAL-I mod and the other mods done for the Oztivo?

Thanks a lot for all the work already done on this!

It's hard to figure out what the problem is without the PALMOD entries from the /var/log/kernel log file. Both the MSP3430G and MSP3410D will autodetect the NICAM offset correctly... the problem you might have is that if you are running a US TiVo in a NICAM country then you are likely to have trouble getting a NICAM stereo input (a simple explanation can be found here (http://minnie.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/view/FAQ/NzStereoSupport)).

The MSP3430G found in the US units is not capable of NICAM, and while the MSP3410D chips (which are found in the UK units) can be transplanted into a US unit I have not been able to find a way of activating NICAM stereo due to what I am assuming is a master/slave conflict with the I2S bus.

In my US unit (which has a tuner) I have hardwired the left-channel output from the tuner into the left and right inputs of the sound processor (MSP chip) - thus giving me a clean mono signal.

It is possible (and quite easy) to get a NICAM signal working with the UK hardware (as the hardware was designed to run in PAL countries with NICAM).

[petestrash]

Yes they were both modded at the same time with the same components. How certain would you be re the regulator? Easy enough for an amateur to replace?

I have had to do a couple of these, from memory it's U62 near the fan connector. Pin 5 should be 8v. remove the cover, then next time it happens check pin5.

Peter.

[ScoobyD00]

Hi guys,

Thanks for looking into resolving this issue.

I have a TiVo modified for PAL using the "Mark 2" sound mod (MSP3410D chip) which is losing sound. On average, it's once a day; sometimes every few days, sometimes a few times a day. The TiVo is still responsive when the sound is gone, so obtaining logs is easy.

The TiVo was delivered with OzTivo v1.4 installed. This was upgraded using rsync/upgrade_oztivo to 1.6.2. Aside from replacing the startup animation to get rid of the choppy sound, it's stock standard running version 3.2 of palmod as is currently distributed.

Can you advise which palmod binary is the best to try to diagnose this? The PAL-I (post 36 (http://forums.oztivo.net/showpost.php?p=9404&postcount=36)) and NZ ones (post 49 (http://forums.oztivo.net/showpost.php?p=9499&postcount=49)) provided recently in this thread don't sound right for use in Australia.

Here's a copy of everything PALMOD related from /var/log/kernel



[TiVo [p0] ~]# grep -i palmod /var/log/*
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 15:42:54 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 15:42:54 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound detected (channel=28, value=65507, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 15:42:57 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 15:42:57 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound detected (channel=2, value=65530, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 15:42:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 15:42:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound detected (channel=7, value=65517, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 15:43:01 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 15:43:01 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound not detected, switched to mono (channel=9, value=0x000a, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 15:43:03 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 15:43:03 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound detected (channel=7, value=96, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 17:54:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 17:54:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound not detected, switched to mono (channel=10, value=0x0005, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 18:29:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 18:29:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound detected (channel=7, value=8345, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 23:54:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 23:54:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound detected (channel=10, value=65529, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 01:49:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 01:49:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound detected (channel=2, value=47, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALmod: in rc.arch loadMpegOutput
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: cat: /etc/palmod.conf: No such file or directory
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Migrate old tuner type of 1 to tuner/freq values
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Tuner type=1
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Frequency table=0
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: MSP3410D chip detected
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Using tuner type 1
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Horizontal resolution=544
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Horizontal shift=195
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: S-Video saturation=101
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: S-Video brightness=125
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: S-Video contrast=67
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Composite saturation=101
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Composite brightness=125
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Composite contrast=67
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: A/V input audio level=25
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Tuner saturation=101
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Tuner brightness=125
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Tuner contrast=67
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Tuner audio level=25
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Luminance delay=0
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo detection threshold=16
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: RF Output channel=60
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD: register_chrdev successful
/var/log/kernel:Jan 1 00:00:24 (none) kernel: PALMOD Version 3.2 loaded successfully
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 10:12:10 (none) kernel: PALMOD: No TV sound standard was detected, default to B/G Dual FM
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 10:12:10 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound not detected, switched to mono (channel=2, value=0x0000, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 11:24:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 11:24:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound detected (channel=9, value=65517, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 16:36:31 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 16:36:31 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound detected (channel=10, value=75, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 16:36:34 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 16:36:34 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound detected (channel=9, value=111, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 16:36:35 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 16:36:35 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound detected (channel=7, value=70, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 16:36:45 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 16:36:45 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound detected (channel=9, value=65482, threshold=16)
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 16:36:46 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 5 16:36:46 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound not detected, switched to mono (channel=10, value=0x0009, threshold=16)
/var/log/messages:Feb 5 10:11:45 (none) Stats: palmod 9880 0 (unused)
/var/log/messages:Feb 5 10:11:45 (none) Stats: fpga7114 146620 0 [palmod]
/var/log/messages:Feb 5 10:11:45 (none) Stats: i2c 10368 0 [palmod pxmpegdecode therm fpga7114]
/var/log/messages:Feb 5 10:11:45 (none) Stats: 125 palmod
[TiVo [p0] ~]#


Cheers!

[thomson]

Can you advise which palmod binary is the best to try to diagnose this?
Your existing binary (the official OzTivo one) looks like it will be fine to diagnose the issue.


Here's a copy of everything PALMOD related from /var/log/kernel

The logs show that the tuner is failing to lock onto a stereo signal and is falling back to mono... so if you are getting no sound then it seems that either there is no sound at all, or the fallback to a mono signal is not working correctly. I know that Channel 10 does have a weak signal in some areas of Australia. If you can keep a record of which shows are recorded without sound (or just the start/stop time along with the Channel number) and then try and match that information to that found in the logs then you may be able to diagnose the situation further.



/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 17:54:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Sound standard 0x03 was detected
/var/log/kernel:Feb 4 17:54:58 (none) kernel: PALMOD: Stereo sound not detected, switched to mono (channel=10, value=0x0005, threshold=16)


Cheers![/QUOTE]

[ScoobyD00]

The logs show that the tuner is failing to lock onto a stereo signal and is falling back to mono... so if you are getting no sound then it seems that either there is no sound at all, or the fallback to a mono signal is not working correctly.


I'm suspecting the latter. Using the tuner in my TV instead of through the TiVo shows all channels have sound at the time of the failure (and all bar channel 2 with stereo sound).

Another point of interest is when the sound disappears, changing channels on the TiVo doesn't make a difference (if it was just one channel, this should resolve it); the unit will not recover until it's rebooted. It's still able to play user interface sounds though.



I know that Channel 10 does have a weak signal in some areas of Australia. If you can keep a record of which shows are recorded without sound (or just the start/stop time along with the Channel number) and then try and match that information to that found in the logs then you may be able to diagnose the situation further.


No problems -- I'll keep an eye on this.

Just for fun, is there an easy way to lock it to mono only to see if it's the mono fall back with the problem?

[thomson]

Just for fun, is there an easy way to lock it to mono only to see if it's the mono fall back with the problem?

Not that I can think of... although disconnecting the antenna briefly during a signal change may do it? You may also wish to try the palmod in post 49 of this thread to see if it helps (then I could compare the differences between the two sets of code).

[Cods]

... it's happened to me again.

See post here (http://forums.oztivo.net/showthread.php?p=10220#post10220).