Where did my future program data go? [Archive]

MrGadget

31-08-2004, 04:11 PM

For some reason I don't seem to have any program data after around midnight tonight...
I did a daily call yesterday and downloaded data... and another today (no data - which I would expect on a Tuesday) but my program guide has nothing after tonight.
I assume there is no mass problem with the guide (?) Is it just me ? If so, any idea's why not? Will it all come back with Wednesday's data ?

tungsten

31-08-2004, 04:47 PM

I also have this problem, updated on Saturday got data through to tonight, updated a small amount last night but no obvious change, just updated now and still nothing new.

Wayne

timmy

31-08-2004, 05:06 PM

sorry folks looks like we have a slight hickup in the latest slice.
will be resolved asap.

apologies..

TiM

MrGadget

31-08-2004, 05:13 PM

Cool -so long as it's not just me :-) Crap happens

Dalc

31-08-2004, 05:15 PM

Cool -so long as it's not just me :-) Crap happens

yeah same, I'm relieved to see its not just me, so thanks for starting the thread. ;)

Theres nothing garunteed about this service so long as the right people know bout the problem, and its not just me, thats all I need to know.

waynez

31-08-2004, 05:15 PM

Yep, same problem, guide data runs out around 11:30

Although forcing an daily call, it all completes successfully, and returns saying:

Program Guide Data to: Monday, Sep 13, 2004

But clearly thats not the case....

Sorry bout that took to long to post the message

waynez

31-08-2004, 05:27 PM

jaidev

31-08-2004, 06:04 PM

Sorry didn't pick this up earlier, usually I check to see it's going smoothly..
Looking into it

jaidev

31-08-2004, 07:50 PM

Ok guide data machine checks out ok. b.t.w it is running a RAID 0 setup
and is on a UPS..

We are in fact experiencing techincal difficulties with the recent new guide system, so I have reverted back to the old system which works fine..
A new slice has been created and uploaded.

Emulator users: Ed's emulator machine usually downloads slices everyday at 12:45pm, so the slice will be available then. Unless Ed see's this and manually drops the slice in.

Anyway I'll contact Ed to allow me to drop in slices when ever there is a problem etc..

cheers
Jaidev

Muzza

01-09-2004, 05:41 AM

Hi Guys - I have tried again several times this morning but no data. I have run out completely (everything is TBA). Do I need to run through guided setup to rectify perhaps?

Cheers

SeanOffShotgun

01-09-2004, 06:09 AM

Timmy,

Is there any way any of us can be of assitance helping to pick these little hiccups up?

Or for that matter is there anything that we can help with, in regards to helping with the guid data. You guys work hard supplying the information, would be good to be able to help in some way,

Cheers

WayneZ
Yes I agree that assistance is not only a good idea but actually necessary to ensure the ongoing viability of the 'service'. I realise that all this is in it's infancy but if the users out there can't rely on the existance of guide data NZ TiVo will not be what it can be (my wife continually threatens to jump ship and go back to our Panasonic HDD Recorder [no guide data... ever! - grrr!]).

Like any similar system in the commercial world I believe this service could benefit from at least some independant (from Timmy, Jaidev and Ed) backup/support/checks and balances/whatever you like to call it.

If any of Timmy, Jaidev or Ed are unavailable (go on holiday, are sick or lose interest) where does that leave the rest of the NZ TiVo community?

With all due (and plenty is due) respect to Timmy, Jaidev or Ed (who made this all happen) I think we all need you guys to let some of the rest of us help. Each role should have a backup who can perform the same function, and the outcome of each process could be checked by someone other than the person who runs the process. (Standard stuff really).

I have offered my help previously and I have seen others offer also - but I haven't had that offer taken up. I think of it a little like I think of my children (or anything I create and nurture), for the betterment of everybody, one has to let go a little eventually - I would like to suggest that this time has come for NZ TiVo.

Sean.
Ex (because I now look after my children full time) SA / DBA

SeanOffShotgun

01-09-2004, 06:11 AM

Hi Guys - I have tried again several times this morning but no data. I have run out completely (everything is TBA). Do I need to run through guided setup to rectify perhaps?

Cheers
Muzza, if you are an emulator user then...

Emulator users: Ed's emulator machine usually downloads slices everyday at 12:45pm, so the slice will be available then. Unless Ed see's this and manually drops the slice in.

thomson

01-09-2004, 06:48 AM

If anyone is real impatient or in desperate need of the EPG then you can always try downloading the slice from http://216.58.174.222/tjvinfo/nztivo.slice and load it using

wget http://216.58.174.222/tjvinfo/nztivo.slice
dbload30.tcl nztivo.slice

Wibble

01-09-2004, 08:24 AM

That worked for me.

(Remotely updating your Tivo from work is certainly fun :-) )

If anyone is real impatient or in desperate need of the EPG then you can always try downloading the slice from http://216.58.174.222/tjvinfo/nztivo.slice and load it using

wget http://216.58.174.222/tjvinfo/nztivo.slice
dbload30.tcl nztivo.slice

MrGadget

01-09-2004, 09:06 AM

I too agree that the Tivo community will only ever be as good as the members that contribute. Those mentioned who have created what we all use and rely on must certainly be congratulated (I love my Tivo - but I wouldn't have one if it weren't for the guide data) - so thank you!.

As a newbie I'm learning daily (with matching <perhaps> silly questions), and know very little about Linux, but a reasonable PC/Windows knowledge and would be very happy to give my time / PC processing power to assist in guide creation or in any other way I can.

Please guys, feel free to seek my help in any way that will benefit the team.... It seems that there are several (at least) in the forums who are willing to offer their time - great to see.

Thanks,

Neil

Muzza

01-09-2004, 12:18 PM

I just tried doing a forced "dial up" again and the guide data is now returning.
Cheers.

timmy

01-09-2004, 04:35 PM

Hi All,

Just to clarify a few points raised in this thread. Myself, Jaidev, and Ed are all VERY keen to progress the guide data situation further along. Unfortunately the big problem is the lack of users with programming skills and time. I've tried and done some guide data work on a few fronts for teh past 6-8 months but haven't really produced anything useable yet, to be honest i'm really only a junior programmer and after we got guide data working ok (again) the motivation kind of dropped off.

Like any similar system in the commercial world I believe this service could benefit from at least some independant (from Tim, Jaidev and Ed) backup/support/checks and balances/whatever you like to call it.

Indeed that would be nice. You are most welcome to setup your own emulator and copy the slices from my site and match the channels that Ed is using, I am sure he would be happy to assist you in getting an emulator running :)

If any of Tim, Jaidev or Ed are unavailable (go on holiday, are sick or lose interest) where does that leave the rest of the NZ TiVo community?

yeah Jaidev and I jumped up and down about this issue with the last guy who was creating the slices... lol so we know exactly how you feel ;)

With all due (and plenty is due) respect to Tim, Jaidev or Ed (who made this all happen) I think we all need you guys to let some of the rest of us help. Each role should have a backup who can perform the same function, and the outcome of each process could be checked by someone other than the person who runs the process. (Standard stuff really).

Well having one (or more) guide data service that is independant from tivo would be ideal, that way multiple people could create slices and use the data for other systems eg Mythtv.

I would like to suggest that this time has come for NZ TiVo.

Agreed.

Basically I think what we should do is start discussing the nuts and bolts of a guide data service. You don't need to be a programmer to do this... I think we have enough people with database and webscripting (eg php,asp.net) skills to make it feasible.

SeanOffShotgun

01-09-2004, 04:54 PM

Thank you Timmy for replying.

I did have Thomson check that what I wrote was all reasonable - sometimes I'm not good at getting my point across while remaining diplomatic. But I do appreciate you taking my post in the good spirit that was intended.

Anyway, I was a programmer once, but more recently my experience has been more focused on system and database administration. I do know a fair amount of UNIX - I'm just a little rusty. In fact the TiVo is re-polishing some of those UNIX skills nicely.

How do you suggest we proceed? Would you like to start another (nuts and botls) thread? :)

As far as tasks go... maybe break the thing into bits and ask for volunteers to produce solutions?

PS

Where are you on this Thomson?

waynez

01-09-2004, 05:03 PM

cheers for that Timmy,

I'm keen to have a crack at setting up an emulator.....

could you point me in the right direction I'll have a go and see what I can do

If you have some links to how to setup an emulator, or how to get the guide data Ill have a go.

There was some mention a while ago about setting up a guide data website, may be an option to allow certain members to go in, add to the guide data, ensure it's accuracy as much as possible, and then create a tivo slice????

Waynez :)

timmy

01-09-2004, 05:11 PM

hey mate,

just started a new thread in the guide data forum :)

I appreciate you trying to shake things up tho dude, there is always that line between being a critical newbie and a proactive volunteer eh, lol kidding :D

I used to do alot of jumping up and down but must be getting more sedate as time passes (and guide data is (mostly) smooth, lol).

look forward to your ideas.

regards,

TiM

timmy

01-09-2004, 05:19 PM

I'm keen to have a crack at setting up an emulator.....
could you point me in the right direction I'll have a go and see what I can do

If you have some links to how to setup an emulator, or how to get the guide data Ill have a go.

Cool! Well unfortunately I dont know jack about the emulator but Jaidev is a bit of an authority and Ed can help you out too. Seriously this would be good to document on the new wiki (just about there.. www.nztivo.net).
I'm sure oztivo archives probably have some good info and no doubt there are webpages documenting it all. buzz jaidev for this he should be able to get you started..

There was some mention a while ago about setting up a guide data website, may be an option to allow certain members to go in, add to the guide data, ensure it's accuracy as much as possible, and then create a tivo slice????

Probably another one of my undelivered promises, lol. Or oztivo.. lol.
Sounds like ideas for the new system, hehe. It'd be great if anyone could grab the data needed to make a slice, then we could have a few guys with emulators all making slices and the rest of the masses can just take their pick as to what emulator they want to connect to..

TiM

waynez

01-09-2004, 05:25 PM

I'll carry on in your new thread......

clive

01-09-2004, 05:35 PM

could you point me in the right direction I'll have a go and see what I can do

If you have some links to how to setup an emulator, or how to get the guide data Ill have a go.

OK boys and girls, start your engines ... and point your browser to http://www.tivocanada.com

Seems the Canadians have have blazed a bit of a trail and there is a setup guide on emulators there. I printed the 53 pages :eek: a couple of days ago and have started browsing through (try http://www.tivocanada.com/long/index.php for a printer friendly version). If you've done any Linux compiling from source, you'll be right at home (eg "install these 18 PERL modules from CPAN etc).

There may well be other resources but this was one that Ed pointed me to when I asked him about this stuff in a recent offline yak. The link is also contained on the Hints or Tips UsefulURLs page on Oztivo. The site wasn't loading when I tried it a few minutes back, so no instant gratification.

It's a start ...

jaidev

01-09-2004, 08:09 PM

Ok new guide data system is back to normal, technical difficulties resolved.

Jaidev

Wibble

12-09-2004, 05:50 PM

Hi, I am using the LOADGUIDE method and it looks like the http://216.58.174.222/tjvinfo/nztivo.slice is out of date.

I even tried loading it manually but this is what I get.
08 Sep 2004 - 01:33:32 - NZ Sky Slice Updated
09 Sep 2004 - 01:25:04 - NZ Sky - Nothing to Do
10 Sep 2004 - 01:25:06 - NZ Sky - Nothing to Do
11 Sep 2004 - 01:25:01 - NZ Sky - Nothing to Do
12 Sep 2004 - 01:25:02 - NZ Sky - Nothing to Do
12 Sep 2004 - 19:09:24 - NZ Sky - Nothing to Do
12 Sep 2004 - 19:10:27 - NZ Sky - Nothing to Do

(last two were manual)

Is this deprecated and do I need to switch to the emulator?

Dalc

12-09-2004, 06:15 PM

This problem is called ISP's invisible proxy knowing best. Most if not all ISPs now have a proxy server that handles all its customer's web access without the user having to setup a proxy server in thier browser settings, it just intercepts all traffic on port 80 and does with it as it pleases.

This is generally good for ISP and customer, but if customer, in this case you and me, wants the latest version of a file but the proxy can't be bothered checking if a new version is available so just gives you the old one, so loadguide doesn't bother dling it as it hasn't changed.

This is easily fixed however. Change your loadguide.conf, the last line is:

WGET="wget -t 5 -nv -nd -S -Na /var/log/wget.log"

Add a "-C off"(case matters) so its:

WGET="wget -C off -t 5 -nv -nd -S -Na /var/log/wget.log"

Then the ISP proxy server will be put in its place, letting loadguide always check the latest version from the web server.

Wibble

12-09-2004, 06:40 PM

That did the trick, thanks very much.

I'd forgotten about the proxy. (we don't have one at work).

Some proxies are just too damn aggressive. That file would have changed 2 days ago.

This problem is called ISP's invisible proxy knowing best. Most if not all ISPs now have a proxy server that handles all its customer's web access without the user having to setup a proxy server in thier browser settings, it just intercepts all traffic on port 80 and does with it as it pleases.

STu

29-09-2004, 06:04 AM

I seem to having the same/similar problem with my guide data running out tonight/tomorrow after having a successful update reported this and previous mornings.

Have tried the suggested
WGET="wget -C off -t 5 -nv -nd -S -Na /var/log/wget.log" and then doing a loadguide but still no data.

Is this because I use the emulator and the loadguide option won't work for me?

Dalc

29-09-2004, 06:54 AM

Is this because I use the emulator and the loadguide option won't work for me?

I don't know if thats relevant to the emulator. Loadguide just dls a file via http and processes it. Does the emulator do the same? Or does it connect directly to a server where it can have a 2 way conversation to determine what it needs, and retrieves the data that way?

STu

29-09-2004, 07:31 AM

So I guess the question is, am I the only one currently having this problem (has been working fine up until now) or is there a wider spread issue?

ie. Should I do a clear all data or am I getting some sort of caching issue with the ISP (Xtra Broadband)?

ehintz

29-09-2004, 08:53 AM

The emulator works by checking the TCDID number (a unique ID) to ID the Tivo, then checking against the last connection made by that Tivo. If any slices have been updated since the last connection time it will signal the Tivo to grab the new slice. The slices are downloaded via http, but a new slice will have a different name so even if the ISP is cacheing it shouldn't affect it except in rare circumstances such as a buggered slice going up at 10pm, and a good one going up at noon the next day The emulator runs PDT so that particular combination of steps would result in 2 different slices having the same name, which could give cacheing issues-but this is a very unlikely scenario as it would require Jaidev to manually post a bad slice, then the automatic generation to post a good one. I would say the converse is much more likely. The caching issues are due to the fact that for loadguide all slices have the same name (nztivo.slice), all emulator slices have a name keyed to the date they were uploaded to the emulator.

Not at home so I can't check my data at the moment, but it's certainly possible that something has gone wacky somewhere. Anybody else losing data beyond tonight?

ehintz

29-09-2004, 09:39 AM

Heh. It may be worth noting that today is Wed, and Jaidev's auto-posting system puts up new slices at high noon on MWF... There's a new one up there as of 2 minutes ago and I'd say there's a reasonable chance it has some data for tonight in it... :D

Dalc

29-09-2004, 09:48 AM

I noticed loadguide has retrieved new data at 2pm Monday, 6am yesterday, 6am today, and just now today. Before the most recent slice grab I did manually, I had data up to Sunday. After this latest slice grab, I have data thru till next Monday.

I have no complain of product...

STu

29-09-2004, 05:22 PM

Thanks for explaining that Ed and Dalc. Indeed, when I got home and did a daily call I now mostly have data through to midday Monday. I guess something got confused somehwere loading this Monday's splice leaving things coming down to the wire waiting the today's splice.

I do notice that TV1 Data is missing from 8:00 to Saturday morning when viewed in the guide however the web interface shows full data with the 8:00pm show on TV1 as about 4 hours long followed by itself and then normal programming. Think I'll do a clear program data as something has obviously gone screwy at my end.

Thanks for the help guys.

STu

STu

29-09-2004, 06:19 PM

Update for noobs like myself.

If you've cleared program data for whatever reason and place a daily phone call to get new program data, it doesn't actually fetch any new data, and won't, I suspect until a new slice is available, (Friday in my case). This is probably due to the TCDID number (Ed was kind enough to mention earlier) identifying this TiVo as already having up-to-date guide data.

Rather than waiting until Friday I figured there must be a way to get a new TCDID, (unless it's based on MAC address or something immutable like that). So ran a guided setup again figuring this may assign a new one and I guess it did as I now have new guide data.

Interestingly, the gap in data for TV1 following 8:00 show on Wed through to Sat morning still exists so I guess it's just missing/overlapped? source data at this point.

Hope this helps
STu

zollymonsta

29-09-2004, 06:35 PM

I could be wrong, but I would assume that re-running guided setup does not change the TiVo id number. I'm guessing the number is actually set elsewhere (possibly hard coded in the TiVo's bios or similar).

Of course I could be wrong, but I would assume that this is the case (just like a serial number) one machine always has the same ID.

Apparently there is a flag that can also be set that flags a tivo as 'Stolen' (going by the TiVo id). This would probably show up under 'system information' . Kinda handy :)

ehintz

30-09-2004, 08:36 AM

IIRC the number is based on the unit's serial number, and it doesn't change with re-running GS... However, part of the GS process is to download current guide data, and I suspect that the emulator/tivo don't check for last call at that point, since obviously there wouldn't be a last call when running GS.

Also, should you be in this sort of situation (the emulator thinks you have data and for whatever reason you don't) another option would be to contact me with your TCD_ID number, and I can reset the emulator so that when you next connect it will spew forth slices.

Here's how to get the TCD_ID:

http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/oztivo/2004-August/017052.html

jaidev

30-09-2004, 04:52 PM

jaidev

30-09-2004, 04:58 PM

Interestingly, the gap in data for TV1 following 8:00 show on Wed through to Sat morning still exists so I guess it's just missing/overlapped? source data at this point.
STu

That seems to be a bug, I've noticed this before on TiVo. Pressing the "Guide" button, If you move up to a previous day the guide data will show for that previous day, however moving backdown it will skip a couple of days. To fix it, just press the "Guide" button again, to get rid of the on screen guide, then press it again to show the on screen guide, it should show the proper data for the next day. (This is RARE and happens occasionally)

Moral of the story: Avoid going back to previous day data through the onscreen guide, if you do expect some weirdness. :)

STu

03-10-2004, 06:53 PM

Hi jaidev,

I'm not sure this is the problem I'm encountering.
For example, Sunday Channel 3 has consistantly shown no data in the Live Guide between the 6:00pm news and The Practice at 10:30pm.
When viewing the TiVo Web Grid it shows displays the text (not a linK) "nnn Filler" where nnn appears to be a number indicating the length of the gap.

If this is just somehthing I've screwed up I can work on finding out what I've stuffed, but if this is a guide completeness issue, I'd like to see if we can put in place some sort of feedback loop so that these gaps can be identified and hopefully work together to find a resolution, (hmm post-data from a TiVo?).

Is anyone else seeing this sort of thing?

cheers STu

MrGadget

04-10-2004, 10:46 AM