Distinguishing First-Run from Repeat shows

[edcba]

If (as seems to be the case) the OzTiVo guide doesn't label a show as first-run or repeat, would the following method be a start to making this distinction available?

If a program is shown at prime time (starting between 7 and 11 pm) and a show with the same name and duration is shown on the next or following day on the same channel in non-prime time, label the prime-time showing as first-run. Of course this algorithm will label as first-run repeats of shows that were previously shown months earlier, but it would be a start, and would save users interested to record only First-run showings from having to eliminate repeats on the To Do list or the Now Showing list.

Just a thought.

[edcba]

100 people have now viewed this thread, but no OzTiVo specialist has replied. (I realise that they are working on other issues.) I have another thought. Would it be easy to implement a Season Pass selection that allows only programs shown in prime time (say starting between 6 pm and midnight) to be recorded? This would remove many repeats, which often are shown in the afternoon. And it would stop users from having to remove numerous repeats from the 'To Do' or 'Now Playing' list.

[DavidKeegel]

I don't think that suggestion is practical/implementable with the current system.
There is some development work in a different direction which may help with season passes, but I can't give you a time frame for that.

[paulw]

How did TiVo flag programs as first run back in the day?? I know here in NZ it seemed to work OK for the main channels but others it didn't and you'd get multiple recordings ..

[edcba]

As more than a year has now passed may I ask whether any progress has been made to distinguish first-run from repeat shows?

[DavidKeegel]

As more than a year has now passed may I ask whether any progress has been made to distinguish first-run from repeat shows?

Not really. There have been a couple of attempts but they haven't borne any fruit.

I'm assuming you are talking about season passes and not getting multiple recordings of the same content when it is repeated at different times.

The real issue here is that the oztivo database needs to know which episode (not just which series) is showing at a given time. That information flows through to your tivo and your tivo can then recognise whether a showing is an episode you have already recorded (in which case, skip it) or not (in which case, record it).

There are two main ways that episode information could get into the oztivo database. One is for an automated system to get information about episodes. This is obviously the preferred long term approach, but it involves writing code and matching things up (significantly more complicated than we have currently), and this does not exist yet (although as I mentioned there have been a couple of attempts). The second is for volunteers to manually update the oztivo guide database, which can be done through a web interface in the same way that volunteers in some regions update oztivo to reflect late changes in scheduled programming. The problem here is that this involves manual work for every showing in every region (it may only be a few minutes each, but there are a lot of showings). Sometimes this happens, but it's patchy and region-dependent (at the moment Cairns probably has the best episode showing guide info in oztivo, thanks to Don).

If there is someone out there who is a PHP programmer and has spare time to volunteer on automating episode information, please let me know.
If you have some spare time and a web browser and want to help with the second approach for your area/region, see:
[URL="http://https://forums.oztivo.net/showthread.php?2868-Looking-for-volunteers-to-update-local-guide-data&p=18689#post18689" Looking for volunteers to update local guide data[/URL]

[edcba]

Thanks, David, for your explanation. As you mention, I'd also like to be able to distinguish first-run from repeats of the same program. Have there been any developments on this function?

[DavidKeegel]

Thanks, David, for your explanation. As you mention, I'd also like to be able to distinguish first-run from repeats of the same program. Have there been any developments on this function?

My previous answer was about solving the problem of season passes recording the same content multiple times when that content is repeated by TV broadcasters. If that's not the problem you're concerned about, then please explain the problem in more detail and give an example.

There is not much progress on an automated solution, but if volunteers are prepared to put the effort in there is per-region per-day work that can be done to fix specific series. I sometimes do a few series in Melbourne.

[DavidKeegel]

Let's do an experiment, so we can hopefully all get on the same page about whether the episode thing I was writing about on July 24 will fix the first run vs repeat problem.

edcba, pick one series which you have had trouble with (I'm assuming your issue is with a season pass where you end up getting multiple recordings with the same content on them, if not, let us know) and a region (a capital city or large regional town from which TV is broadcast). Then I will manually update episode info for that series in that region for a week, and you check whether you still have the problem in that week and report back to us.

[edcba]

Dear David

I'm in Sydney. We have Season Passes marked First-Run Only for the ABC HD Channel 20 programs 'Call the Midwife' and 'Gardening Australia'. The following episodes, all of which are repeats, are currently scheduled to be recorded. For Call the Midwife, Monday 12.10 am and 2 pm; Tuesday 12.28 am and 2.01 pm; and more. For Gardening Australia Monday 11.01 am and Tuesday 10.59 am and more. All these episodes are repeats. In general, I think that when these programs are shown outside prime time (say between 6 pm and 11 pm) they are repeats.
When Hybrid was operating none of these repeats would be scheduled if 'First-run Only' was selected. It would be very useful if that behaviour could be restored. At present, I have manually to remove all these daytime repeats from the 'To Do' list, which is a bother.
I (and I am sure others) hope that you can fix this.

[DavidKeegel]

Dear David

I'm in Sydney. We have Season Passes marked First-Run Only for the ABC HD Channel 20 programs 'Call the Midwife' and 'Gardening Australia'. The following episodes, all of which are repeats, are currently scheduled to be recorded. For Call the Midwife, Monday 12.10 am and 2 pm; Tuesday 12.28 am and 2.01 pm; and more. For Gardening Australia Monday 11.01 am and Tuesday 10.59 am and more. All these episodes are repeats. In general, I think that when these programs are shown outside prime time (say between 6 pm and 11 pm) they are repeats.
When Hybrid was operating none of these repeats would be scheduled if 'First-run Only' was selected. It would be very useful if that behaviour could be restored. At present, I have manually to remove all these daytime repeats from the 'To Do' list, which is a bother.
I (and I am sure others) hope that you can fix this.

I have set up the experiment, although it ended up being different from what I envisioned yesterday (and no doubt different to the way edcba wishes the problem could be solved). For one thing, the experiment applies Australia wide.
From tomorrow (August 5 about 2am AEST) when your tivo updates its guide info, it should see showings of Call The Midwife and Gardening Australia which are scheduled before 6pm as being in an episode called "Encore" (in either case). Your TiVo should be smart enough not to record those "Encore" episodes at least as long as you have an undeleted "Encore" episode.

In short, by Tuesday or Wednesday your season passes should stop recording those showings of Call the Midwife and Gardening Australia which are before 6pm (although you might need to keep one "Encore" episode on your TiVo to stop it recording more).
If the experiment goes well this week, I think I have a way to continue this indefinitely without much effort for those two series (assuming ABC keep showing repeats before 6pm and new episodes after 6pm).

[edcba]

Dear David

This has worked. Thank you. Is it feasible for you to extend this solution to other series as well?

[DavidKeegel]

Dear David

This has worked. Thank you. Is it feasible for you to extend this solution to other series as well?

I could probably add a few (2-4) series per week, if those particular series are similarly easy to categorise (eg: showings before 6pm are "Encore", showings after 6pm are new episodes). Things like the time "6pm" and the episode name "Encore" could be customised for each series if appropriate.

For this experiment I have added new episodes for Gardening Australia (with the date in YYYY-MM-DD format), but I don't expect to keep that up in future. I think season passes should work if the new showings are just treated as No Title episode as long as repeats keep being treated as "Encore" episode. In which case, I shouldn't need to do any extra daily/weekly work for Gardening Australia in future.

[edcba]

Dear David

Thanks again for your help. Tonight's 'Gardening Australia' didn't get into my To Do list, although tomorrow night's 'Back Roads' did. I've added tonight's 'Gardening Australia' manually.

[DavidKeegel]

Dear David

Thanks again for your help. Tonight's 'Gardening Australia' didn't get into my To Do list, although tomorrow night's 'Back Roads' did. I've added tonight's 'Gardening Australia' manually.

That's strange. If you go to TiVo > Find Programs > To Do List > View Recording History then it should show you why past showings were not recorded and also why future showings will not be recorded. It might be too late to check that now that you have manually added tonight's showing of 'Gardening Australia' but I think its probably worth a look to see if there is a reason your TiVo didn't want to put it on the To Do list, and certainly worth a look if this happens again. The showing in question should be of an episode called "2019-08-09" of series "Gardening Australia".

[edcba]

A 10 am showing of Back Roads on ABC HD (Sydney) on Wednesday 21 August has appeared on my To Do list. It's obviously a repeat, but it wasn't rejected as an Encore, even though my Season Pass says First-run Only.

As mentioned previously, I'd like to have a setting so that daytime programs don't get recorded by the Season Pass manager, only prime time recordings.