nzTiVo effort and state

[DJC]

After looking through some of the recent forum posts, it seems timely to reiterate that the nzTiVo team is a volunteer group and makes no assurance as to the availability of any form of operating data.

I had been involved with the team for a while but have moved on from the group, as have a few of the original founding members before me. So, there in lines a problem for the future of the effort. It needs new input or it will simply fail.

There are discussions a foot as to setting an end-of-life for the current setup within the current members of the nzTiVo team.

The team has asked on many occasions for input from the community to assist in building a community maintainable system via a web interface over the top of the current database. But nothing much has come of this, it would have been an important move to allow the community to self maintain and would have likely resulted in a longer lifespan.

I'd personally like to say thanks to the oztivo effort for supplying the data for satellite fed channels common between the two countries, and to those who spent their time uploading the data that we used. Obviously, a number of thier guide uploading members have recently moved on from their community as well and we are seeing that impact here in NZ.

As always if there are people who are willing to contribute, make yourselves known to the team by posting available skills and experience levels as well as how much time you have.

[Chieftain]

I've offered before but I know I'm limited and may need some coaching. I've acted as the NZ contact point for an IT dept. from Aus and provided good instruction was given, I was able to render good assistance. I've made this offer previously, in July and September 08 and I'm aware that both David Stott and Schumi have made similar comments or offers.

My offer still stands. I'm very appreciative of the efforts that the volunteers must put in and salute them for their commitment.

I'd make the comment though, that the current problem has occurred before and just seemed to get fixed "automagically". No explanation from anyone, hence no-one can offer either gratitude or alternatively learn from it. Then, when fixed, it comes back to the old "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and things run on happily until the next break in transmission, so to speak. We seem to have a situation where people post that there's a problem and others chime in, in good faith, to confirm that it's widespread, only to effectively have their ears pinned back.

I suspect the request for help may be fishing for someone with a lot more knowledge than I possess but if it's php and things like that, I'd be prepared to read "For Dummies" book on it if that would help.

I'm not looking to upset anyone, just stating what I see (or "perceive") from the outside.

If I can help, I'm only a few keystrokes away..

[eformat]

well, i've been a perl/C++/java programmer for ~10yrs, worked in IT for longer and own a tivo series 1. i have written and maintained data feeds, web scraping technology for a living in nz and the uk.

i can see the NZ slices being downloaded from here:
http://210.48.107.133:8000/

and have also looked at this website for show data:
http://orac.caffeine.co.nz/shows/index.php

if you need volunteers, just let me know. mike

[finethen]

I also have enjoyed the abilities and input of the dwindling original crew and would love to help maintain the effort, my talents are; quick learner and application to the task

[Schumi]

I think Chieftain has hit the nail on the head - there are many of us out there who are willing to contribute if they only knew what to do and how. It's all nice and well to say "we need more people to enter guide data", but what is really needed are some New Zealand specific instructions what is required and when to do it. I am willing to help but I don't have the time to sift through 200 channels of program data to find a small gap that I can populate, and I am sure others feel the same. If there was a simple report method that would tell me "TV3 has a data gap on X day from A to B" then at least I could concentrate my efforts. Maybe there is, but if so, where? I also don't have the time to go through a ton of messages on the forum to find a specific issue I might be able to fix.
What I think contributes is the fact that the community doesn't really know who the champions in the system are, or how to communicate to them. The NZ site is down "for Maintenance" whatever that means, so there is no real contact to the other team members possible aside from the forum, which again isn't the best way of communication. Why is the site down? I'm sure there is a perfectly good explanation, I just haven't found it yet. We need someone who can lead and tell us where the problems are, then I am sure we will find people who are able and willing to fix them.

[jaidev]

We are not going to get into the discussion of why the guide creation process is not public knowledge there are reasons for this and I'm sure you appreciate why.
If I got a C & D for a domain I'm sure they know about our NZ emu service and can quite easily issue one for that, then it is all over no warnings.

The simple fact is previously we required 1 or 2 people with programming skills and web coding skills i.e. perl, java etc. Founding members such as myself were around to keep things ticking along. However it has come to a situation where we now we require people in a few areas. Obviously we have plenty of volunteers who can update and fill gaps in guide data however we were unable to use that until the system to do it is in place.
We require someone to develop and create the web system to allow this, then you can volunteer to enter guide data and fill gaps.

As discussed about the nztivo site.
We require someone willing to develop the nzTivo site, maintain it and update it, no one did bite at this offer, (http://forums.oztivo.net/showpost.php?p=14445&postcount=24)
I can make a login for someone who is willing to do this. First of all it requires a update to the latest release of wikimedia. Or if you have better ideas and want the domain pointed to your nztivo creation I can facilitate that too.

Continue posting what your skills and what you would like to contribute too. If we don't get the required volunteers for this round of asking then the system will be placed in EOL mode for the next year.

[DJC]

I've noted posts here (and on the other thread) wanting to know who, what, why and seeking explanations ...

A couple of things need to be made clear from prior exposure to decentralised structures like this:-

1. The nzTiVo setup is not a commercial service ... far from it ... never intended to be ... its a volunteer best endeavors setup which may or may not work, but has worked pretty well in the past. But of course as various people move on numbers need to be kept up, otherwise EOL will come sooner rather than a planned date.

If you don't agree with that SLA, ie there is not a service level agreement - you still have the simple alternative to set up your own system and to get it to work the way you need, this is what the original team did to evolve from the old VCR manual record and then loadguide methods.

2. If members of the nzTiVo team choose not disclose their details or level of contribution, then that is really their decision. After all, they are volunteering their time to help others and are not accountable for doing so or not doing so, we just hope they do.

This is the nature of a loosely knit group of volunteers. Personally, I'm just thankful for the contributions that many have made in the past - its been a great service while it lasted.

[Schumi]

Hi guys,
I thought I better make it clear that it is my and presumably everyone elses view that you have done fantastic work to keep this going for as long as it has. From day one when I imported my TIVO from the US I have always viewed this as a volunteer service with a no-guarantees-attached policy. I have often pondered where to help, but since I have no experience in java programming and have done little perl scripting my assistance is probably only minimal; I could update an html page with an FAQ if that skill was required. I have no problem if the guide creation process is not published or members don't want to reveal some of their personal "tricks", but if that's the case where is the rest supposed to pick up? No one is asking for the inner workings of it all, but if we are supposed to contribute we need to know what needs doing. I don't believe you will get like for like replacements for the team members who have moved on. The way I see it the jobs that need to be done are not bite size, so some just shy away because they are overwhelmed, which is why they need to be made small and overseeable so when someone can't do it any longer a replacement is easily found. Someone who knows the systems needs to take the lead. If this isn't possible then maybe it is best to say thanks for the good time and move on.

[Wanted]

Well I have no skills that will help but understand if it's time for the project to end it was never going to last for ever. I guess now there are products on the market like MySky, MyFreeview and soon MyTiVo (I really hate that naming convention we seem to have fallen into in NZ) it could get nasty. Maybe it's time to look at something with HD and more features than the series 1 TiVo. Thanks to everyone that has helped me out over the years.

[David Stott]

While I'm also very thankful for what we have received over the last several years, I'm not at all keen to give up the ghost on the current system sooner rather than later.

Having experimented with other systems including Topfield's so-called top-of-the-line PVR (simply awful) and MySky (good but not up to TiVo), I am still of the opinion that TiVo is the gold standard in PVRs. But as someone who lives in the boonies and cannot get a terrestrial signal at all, let alone a high def one, I am constrained to Satellite based TV for the foreseeable future (even the internet is likely to be many years away as my 1.3Mb download speed is unlikely to be upgradeable for quite a while). That means Sky or Freeview and I refuse to pay Sky's extortionate monthly fees. Which means Freeview, which means no high-def.

Will the new NZ TiVo allow for SD or does it assume that everyone can get HD? And I assume my two TiVos become junk at the point that we lose our wonderful free guide? The recent outage reminded me of how awful it is to have programs with date/time stamps instead of names.

All in all I'm very keen for current service to continue as long as possible and am keen to help out in anyway I can, as I know others are. But I have no programming skills that seem to be required (unless Cobol is of use :-). I have made a donation to OzTivo in the past, but guess that doesn't help out the NZ operation.

I think I now understand the commercial reasons for the lack of replies on the specifics of how the magic happens, and just hope that someone with the appropriate technical abilities will post sooner or later to help out the dwindling band of magicians.

David

[Skolink]

Will the new NZ TiVo allow for SD or does it assume that everyone can get HD? And I assume my two TiVos become junk at the point that we lose our wonderful free guide? The recent outage reminded me of how awful it is to have programs with date/time stamps instead of names.
David

The TiVoHD is terrestrial digital only, and has no video inputs for a separate STB, so many New Zealanders will not be able to use it and will still need their Series 1.

[Wibble]

Hi all, i'm currently hosting the guide server.

The 1st thing I'd like to say is don't panic, the service is not going away any time soon.

What has happened recently is that one of the main contributors, DJC, has signalled that he was going to be moving on, it then came up that a couple of the other core guys were also going to be moving on.

So obviously there is a need to find replacements.

I think some people feel that not much is heard from the guides team. Apart from the guide data issue that Jaidev has mentioned previously. The reason for that is that the guide team don't say much (even to each other), there is no great discussions or flurry of activity going on behind the scenes.

The current setup is a well oiled machine, where each of the team members looks after their own side, spending a minimal amount of time on it.

So if things get fixed by magic, that's also what it looks like to the other team members.

Once it became evident that a few of the core members were leaving, the obvious thing to do is to look for replacements and if none can be found to gracefully shut it down over the next 18 months (my figure).

I fully expect that we will find replacements.

So while things sound scary right now, don't panic just yet.

PS: I am still personally commited to this project.

[Schumi]

Hi Wibble,

Thanks for the re-assurance, I´d love to see this kept going as I have yet to come across any other PVR/Media system with the same userfriendliness and features. Happy to help with some HTML website maintenance if that is required. It was not my intention to do any scaremongering, but I didn´t just want to sit at the sidelines again while something I so regularly use breaks.

Keep up the good work and thanks for your efforts.

[NZMarke]

At the risk of just another "me too" post, I'd just like to say that I also really appreciate all the work that's been done behind the scenes to allow us to use our ageing but still unparalleled TiVos!!

I'm also happy to help out in whatever capacity I can - and to try and recruit too if possible. That said, any coding I could provide is likely to be more dangerous than helpful. But if there are other things I can do - such as helping with hosting the service (or the Wiki) or updating content on it - then I'm happy to do so.

My background is technical - so I have a passing familiarity with web/html, Linux, development (though not PERL). But it's been a while since I did hands-on coding, so I'd be slow and, as mentioned above, probably dangerous. But happy to give things a shot ...

Again thanks everyone for your help. We DO really appreciate everything that's done behind the scenes, and as a number of people have said I'm sure there are people willing and able to help if we know how ...

Wibble - great to hear that you're still keen to continue on. DJC - thanks for your efforts too!

Cheers

Mark

[neilp]

I took a look at the website tonight after finding my guide data for TV1 & TV2 fried (help!).

I stumbled upon this thread and was quite surprised to see it has been running for a few days and I was unaware of it. Of course - I hardly ever refer to the website these days as the guide data service has been so reliable. I confess I have fallen into the habit anytime over the last few month that the GD goes bad, of just waiting until it magically fixes itself.

Credit to the folks who maintain the service, but makes me feel that I have become dissociated from the NZ Tivo project. Only as its so reliable, not through lack of interest.

If not many people are replying to requests for help, why not send a message to all users through the guide data as has been done when the channel lineup changes.

There may be a lot more people out there who could help but no longer come to the website.

Personally I'd love to help, I work in the IT area but do not posess the specific skills it sounds like are needed. Very happy to take on any work I could do, but know my limitations.

The problem seems to be that as the founder members drift away (and no disrespect to them, the ride has been great so far and I for one am nothing but grateful!) that the people required to carry on would ideally be ready skilled up and ready to jump in and do the work.

Might sound obvious, but perhaps the remaining efforts of the team could/should be directed at documenting/organising things so that others can assume the role without having to learn from scratch?

Its an interesting thought for me that my kids are 11 years old now and they can't remember a world without Tivo...

I echo a previous sentiment that I'm not happy to just let things die naturally, but whatever I can do to help in grunt work, effort, donations, whatever - I'm more than happy to offer.

Neil.

PS - anyone looking at the current guide data problems...:o ???

[jaidev]

........As discussed about the nztivo site.
We require someone willing to develop the nzTivo site, maintain it and update it, no one did bite at this offer, (http://forums.oztivo.net/showpost.php?p=14445&postcount=24)
I can make a login for someone who is willing to do this. First of all it requires a update to the latest release of wikimedia. Or if you have better ideas and want the domain pointed to your nztivo creation I can facilitate that too.
:confused: NO BITES!!!

[zoia]

Willing to help out. My strengths lie in backend work though, not front end interfaces. I'm a full-time Linux user and have been since '96.

Languages: C, C++, Java, Perl, Python, Lua, Tcl (though it's been a few years since I did any Tcl). Probably just about any scripting language given the APIs and a description of the language syntax, usually easily available. Looking at 12 years experience all up, 7 of which are professional employment, the other 5 working on projects (MUDs, Papaya mud client, TkTurf mud client) outside of university study.

Specialist areas: SS7 and IP network programming, SLEE.

Professionally I'm a Java and C++ software engineer working mostly with SLEE and SS7 (providing the interface that allows a SLEE programmer to send and receive SS7 messages).

In terms of time, over the long term no more than a couple of hours per week. Obviously with any software effort there are busy and quiet times.

[petestrash]

Zoia, you might want to send a PM to Jaidev or DJC as they do not visit here very often.

Peter.

[David Stott]

Neilp, in post #15, asks if anyone is looking at the current guide problems.

I'm not sure if his are the same as mine, but for the past two weeks or so I've been unable to reliably record the Six O'clock News on One. I've had a season pass to it for many years now and suddenly it's decided to record on some days and not others. I've deleted and reset it and no joy. I've currently got a manual recording going to make sure I don't miss it.

Also, TV1 is now missing the whole of today, Tuesday 28 June.

David