Can't make first call SerialPPP with dialup

[MJW]

Hi,

I can't make the first call on the Guided Setup so I am seeking advice on what to try next. I am using SerialPPP to connect to Windows XP and I have a dial-up connection to the internet.

I've been following the instructions in the "Setup a serial PPP connection to Windows XP" (http://www.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/view/Network/SerialPPPWithXP). Everything works fine until I reach "Step 8a: Make a call (Guided Setup)".

I'm using WinRoute Lite for NAT and that seems to work OK because I can use ping and wget exactly as described in "Step 7: Check Tivo with a telnet program".

When I use the First Setup Call in the Guided setup I get the error: "Failed. Service unavailable." If I try using the option Make Daily Call Now in TivoWebPlus the call doesn't change from "SettingUp". I've been rebooting my tivo when the TivoWebPlus gets stuck on this status. All these messages occur when I use a prefix of ,#401.

Should I be using a prefix of ,#401 (as described in Step 7) or change this to something ,#257 (as suggested in Step 8a)? Neither have worked for me yet. Step 8a provides ,#211 as an example prefix but I have used ,#257 instead to match my connection speed for SerialPPP.

My Tivo is a Philips HDR612 with original drives. I've used the Oztivo Installer for Philips 1.6.2. I was not able to use the Updater during installation because I only have dialup on my PC. The modem in my Tivo doesn't seems to work so I am attempting to use Serial PPP instead. I don't know how to test the modem apart from having tried the First Setup Call in the Guided Setup.

Thank you,
Michael

[petestrash]

8a is confusing and can be ignored, I'll edit it later.

,#401 is the correct dial prefix for pppondss.

The problem may lie in the fact you can't update the installer. I know we have made a lot of fixes to the networking section including pppondss and modem setup.

can you try the tests here (http://www.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/view/Network/NetworkingHowto#Configuration_and_Diagnostics) and see if they work for you.

Peter.

[Darren King]

The problem may lie in the fact you can't update the installer.

If this is the case then maybe it is time to release R1.6.3

IMHO nobody should be disadvantaged at not being able to install a TiVo just because their PC or home networking circumstances prevent them from accessing the updates.

[MJW]

I've performed those tests using ,#401 and everything seemed OK to me. I'll post the actual results later tonight in case someone can see I problem I haven't picked up on.

When running the Route command I remember that the first Genmask is listed as '255.255.255.255'. I thought that was odd but I've read elsewhere that this is OK for SerialPPP.

Frankly, I'm a bit baffled that wget succeeds (I get 200 OK) but the first call doesn't work. I guess Tivo makes the first call using a different approach to wget?

I'd be happy to trial release R1.6.3 as it is easy to re-image the disks. I'd be happy to email a blank disk and reply-envelope if this release can't be made available online (I have broadband at work). Alternatively, is there a way for me to apply the updates manually? I can access the Tivo via FTP and Telnet.

Thank you,
Michael

[Darren King]

Sorry if my last post was a little misleading. There is no R1.6.3 but merely a R1.6.2 plus installer updates plus updates after installation. Essentially a 3-step process to get a TiVo up and running with all the latest software updates.

What I meant was that given it has been 9+ months since the original R1.6.2 released there have been many software patches and of late it appears that if someone cannot get network access on their PC to do the installer update then there may be issues even getting a TiVo past first base (ie a successful Guided Setup).

That to a certain degree worries me because it is retracting from the original goal to make installation of the image a very easy "boot CD, pick some config options and install" process.

There are also issues of the wrong palmod software being loaded and nic_config_tivo settings not working properly which it appears the update does not address either.

So therefore I'm calling steps to roll out a R1.6.3 to address all issues. However not being involved in the software side of things all I can do is put my thoughts forward and get comments from those who are involved with it.

[MJW]

This is a follow up to my last post. Below are the results I get when trying the network tests suggested by Peter. If anyone can spot the problem please let me know!

[TiVo [p0] ~]# ifconfig
lo Link encap:Local Loopback
inet addr:127.0.0.1 Bcast:127.255.255.255 Mask:255.0.0.0
UP BROADCAST LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:3584 Metric:1
RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 coll:0

ppp0 Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol
inet addr:192.168.0.3 P-t-P:192.168.0.2 Mask:255.255.255.255
UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:749 errors:1 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:538 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 coll:0

[TiVo [p0] ~]#
[TiVo [p0] ~]# route
route_info, afname=inet, options=33
Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface
192.168.0.2 * 255.255.255.255 U 32767 0 0 ppp0
default 192.168.0.2 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0
[TiVo [p0] ~]#
[TiVo [p0] ~]# ping -c 5 192.168.0.2
PING 192.168.0.2 (192.168.0.2): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=0 ttl=128 time=33.9 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=1 ttl=128 time=40.1 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=2 ttl=128 time=50.1 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=3 ttl=128 time=40.1 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.0.2: icmp_seq=4 ttl=128 time=40.1 ms

--- 192.168.0.2 ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 33.9/40.8/50.1 ms
[TiVo [p0] ~]#
[TiVo [p0] ~]# ping -c 5 204.176.49.1
PING 204.176.49.1 (204.176.49.1): 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 204.176.49.1: icmp_seq=0 ttl=239 time=334.9 ms
64 bytes from 204.176.49.1: icmp_seq=1 ttl=239 time=330.1 ms
64 bytes from 204.176.49.1: icmp_seq=2 ttl=239 time=330.1 ms
64 bytes from 204.176.49.1: icmp_seq=3 ttl=239 time=330.1 ms
64 bytes from 204.176.49.1: icmp_seq=4 ttl=239 time=330.2 ms

--- 204.176.49.1 ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 packets received, 0% packet loss
round-trip min/avg/max = 330.1/331.0/334.9 ms
[TiVo [p0] ~]#
[TiVo [p0] ~]# wget http://131.244.9.101/index.html
--13:49:00-- http://131.244.9.101/index.html
=> `index.html.4'
Connecting to 131.244.9.101:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 7,388 [text/html]

0% [ ] 7,388 0.00G/s ETA 00:00

Last-modified header invalid -- time-stamp ignored.
13:49:03 (0.00 GB/s) - `index.html.4' saved [7388/7388]

[TiVo [p0] ~]#
[TiVo [p0] ~]# dbget /State/PhoneConfig DialPrefix
,#401
[TiVo [p0] ~]#
[TiVo [p0] ~]#

[MJW]

Attached is an extract from my tclient log which shows my last attempt to run the First Setup Call during Guided Setup on the Tivo. This might help some of the software experts diagnose the problem. I'm stumped.

Thanks,
Michael

[petestrash]

So therefore I'm calling steps to roll out a R1.6.3 to address all issues. However not being involved in the software side of things all I can do is put my thoughts forward and get comments from those who are involved with it.

I am the only one currently working on the next release. My goal is to have it released before the end of the year. In fact I would like it to be ready the next couple of months, but free time is an issue at the moment.

There are a lot of big changes to the installer and boot cd which I hope will get around the problems of install on newer PC's, but this proving slow to integrate into a stable release.

Peter.

[petestrash]

Attached is an extract from my tclient log which shows my last attempt to run the First Setup Call during Guided Setup on the Tivo.

The problem is here:
Sep 1 14:44:18 (none) comm[146]: Uploading HTTP Header for modLog of /var/log/svclog: POST /tivo-service/mlog.cgi HTTP/1.0^M Content-Length: 2712^M ^M
Sep 1 14:47:15 (none) comm[146]: XferRqst timeout waiting to read

There is no response from the emulator, but my guess is your request didn't make it there in the first place.

Can you try the command update_oztivo

It will give you a list of files, can you post that list here.

Peter.

[Darren King]

I am the only one currently working on the next release. My goal is to have it released before the end of the year. In fact I would like it to be ready the next couple of months, but free time is an issue at the moment.

Hi Peter

Thanks for the response. I wasn't aware it all fell on your shoulders so please accept my apology. I'm only too aware of time constraints with my own life having me hectic for most of the year :(

Cheers
Darren

[petestrash]

No worries, Usually Ed & Simon do it but they are unavailable.


See how we go.

Peter.

[MJW]

The problem is here:
Sep 1 14:44:18 (none) comm[146]: Uploading HTTP Header for modLog of /var/log/svclog: POST /tivo-service/mlog.cgi HTTP/1.0^M Content-Length: 2712^M ^M
Sep 1 14:47:15 (none) comm[146]: XferRqst timeout waiting to read

There is no response from the emulator, but my guess is your request didn't make it there in the first place.

Can you try the command update_oztivo

It will give you a list of files, can you post that list here.

Peter.

Attached is a copy of the output after I run update_oztivo.

Thank you for your help with this problem Peter.
-Michael

[petestrash]

Nothing is going to help there unfortunately. You can try the command update_oztivo -y which will bring your TiVo up to date.

When you imaged your disk, did you select update installer from the menu?

I still believe your ISP has a proxy which is causing the issue. Can you double check with them and ask them to exclude minnie.tuhs.org (131.244.9.101).

Alternatively can you take your TiVo to a friends house who has a different ADSL provider and see if it works there. It won't help you get going for more than a week, but it will prove your ISP may be at fault.

I am trying to come up with a test that picks-up the newer proxies, but so far I haven't found a reliable method.

Peter

[MJW]

I'm on dialup. I tried the Update option when imaging the disks but nothing happened (which didn't surprise me as I only thought this would work for a broadband user who always has the internet "on").

I ran update_oztivo -y. This appeared to work but, after restarting the tivo, I still couldn't get past the "First Setup Call" during guided setup.

I'll see what I can find out about my ISP and proxies. I think I'll also try another program for doing NAT just in case that is a factor (I'm currently using WinRoute Lite 4.2.5).

Thanks

[petestrash]

Sorry, got confused forgot you were on dial-up.

There are a few people with the same problem you are having at the moment.

Have you tried using the TiVo directly using dialup, not via the PC ?

Peter.

[MJW]

I originally tried using the built-in modem (after configuring the networking during imaging, including ISP details, username and password) but that didn't work. I honestly don't know if the built-in modem is working or not (the seller wasn't sure either, having been given the Tivo by someone else a few years ago).

After that, I re-imaged the Tivo and started trying SerialPPP after making myself a cable.

[petestrash]

I have used pppondss with adsl, but not with a dial-up connection.

I have heard microsoft built in ICS Internet connetion sharing module does work for dial-up connections. You might want to try that.

But I believe since you can wget and other tests, the problem may lie at your ISP.

Peter.

[petestrash]

There is another test I would like to try.

This uses your PC, not the TiVo.

Download WinPcap_4_0_1.exe (http://www.winpcap.org/install/bin/WinPcap_4_0_1.exe) to any location and install it.

Then download tracetcp-0.99.4beta.zip (http://optusnet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/tracetcp/tracetcp-0.99.4beta.zip) to any location and then unzip it into your root directory (c:\).

Open a command prompt and make sure you are in the root directory (cd \), then run the following commands.

C:\tracetcp ftp.monash.edu.au:ftp

C:\tracetcp ftp.monash.edu.au:http

You will get a number of lines displayed over a period time after each command. Once complete copy all the outputs and post them here.

Peter.

[MJW]

Thanks Peter. I'll give that a try tonight and post the results. I haven't tried a different type of Network Address Translation (NAT) software yet so I'll leave my setup as is for now.

If I understand things correctly, some Tivo users have Internet Service Providers (ISP) using Proxies that don't handle HTTP requests confirming to the old HTTP 0.9 protocol and this is one possible reason for the First Call failing. Is that correct?

If so, would it just be possible to send a GET request (via a Telnet session on Port 80) from my home PC to the ISP's server, that conforms to the HTTP 0.9 protocol? If the HTTP 0.9 request succeeded that would suggest the problem lies at the local end of things (Tivo, PC, modem, or NAT software) rather than a proxy at the ISP end of things wouldn't it?

-Michael

[petestrash]

It's been a long time since I looked at the mechanics of the issue. But from memory part of the problem is the proxy not handling http/0.9 and also something about the TiVo sending an invalid length which messes with proxies.

There are currently 3 people having the same issue as you have on this forum.

Only one has tried the latest test and this has confirmed their is an ISP proxy on his connection.

Peter.

[MJW]

I had a quick look at the readme.txt for tracetcp. It mentions the following:
If you need to use the program with a dial-up connection then you can revert to the old raw sockets interface by using the -R switch (this will not work with XP sp2 of course)

As luck would have it, I'm on dialup and am using XP with service pack 2 installed. :(

I've got a spare hard drive lying around so I'll stick an earlier version of XP on it (prior to sp2) and try tracetcp with the raw sockets interface. It might be a few days before I report back to this forum on how everything goes though.

Thanks again.

[petestrash]

Damn dialup...maybe you should just move to ADSL :)

[petestrash]

Can try this from your TiVo, not sure it will prove a proxy though.

traceroute -p 80 ftp.monash.edu.au
traceroute -p 21 ftp.monash.edu.au

And post the results here.

Peter.

[MJW]

There is another test I would like to try.

This uses your PC, not the TiVo.

Download WinPcap_4_0_1.exe (http://www.winpcap.org/install/bin/WinPcap_4_0_1.exe) to any location and install it.

Then download tracetcp-0.99.4beta.zip (http://optusnet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/tracetcp/tracetcp-0.99.4beta.zip) to any location and then unzip it into your root directory (c:\).

Open a command prompt and make sure you are in the root directory (cd \), then run the following commands.

C:\tracetcp ftp.monash.edu.au:ftp

C:\tracetcp ftp.monash.edu.au:http

You will get a number of lines displayed over a period time after each command. Once complete copy all the outputs and post them here.

Peter.

I've now run Tracetcp on a drive with Windows XP SP1 installed. I had to run this program with the raw sockets switch (-R) otherwise I get "Error retrieving MAC address of the adapter". Results are attached but FTP and HTTP show the same number of hops to the destination.

[petestrash]

I don't know if tracetcp is a definitive test yet, but it doesn't show any proxy on your connection.

Would still like you to try the traceroute command on your TiVo mentioned a couple of posts up. It may show some other issues connecting through your software bridge.

On the TiVo can you also try the commands:
route
ifconfig

Peter.

[MJW]

I don't know if tracetcp is a definitive test yet, but it doesn't show any proxy on your connection.

Would still like you to try the traceroute command on your TiVo mentioned a couple of posts up. It may show some other issues connecting through your software bridge.

On the TiVo can you also try the commands:
route
ifconfig

Peter.

Results of the Traceroute, Route and Ifconfig command are shown below. I have changed the Client and Server IPs slightly from my first posts to this thread as I've recently tried Internet Connection Sharing (requires 192.168.0.1 on my PC). Does the Tivo send make the First Call using the IP address for the OzTivo emulator or does it use a Hostname?

[TiVo [p0] ~]# traceroute -p 80 ftp.monash.edu.au
traceroute: unknown host ftp.monash.edu.au
[TiVo [p0] ~]#
[TiVo [p0] ~]# traceroute -p 21 ftp.monash.edu.au
traceroute: unknown host ftp.monash.edu.au
[TiVo [p0] ~]#
[TiVo [p0] ~]# route
route_info, afname=inet, options=33
Kernel IP routing table
Destination Gateway Genmask Flags Metric Ref Use Iface
192.168.0.1 * 255.255.255.255 U 32767 0 0 ppp0
default 192.168.0.1 0.0.0.0 UG 0 0 0 ppp0
[TiVo [p0] ~]#
[TiVo [p0] ~]# ifconfig
lo Link encap:Local Loopback
inet addr:127.0.0.1 Bcast:127.255.255.255 Mask:255.0.0.0
UP BROADCAST LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:3584 Metric:1
RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 coll:0

ppp0 Link encap:Point-to-Point Protocol
inet addr:192.168.0.2 P-t-P:192.168.0.1 Mask:255.255.255.255
UP POINTOPOINT RUNNING NOARP MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
RX packets:802 errors:1 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
TX packets:584 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 coll:0

[TiVo [p0] ~]#

[petestrash]

Does the Tivo send make the First Call using the IP address for the OzTivo emulator or does it use a Hostname?

It uses the IP address from memory.

Your results look normal.

I'm running out of ideas, as to why it's not working for you.

I don't know of anyone else running pppondss on a TiVo with a shared dial-up connection.

Any chance you want to upgrade to ADSL soon :confused:


Peter.

[MJW]

It uses the IP address from memory.

Your results look normal.

I'm running out of ideas, as to why it's not working for you.

I don't know of anyone else running pppondss on a TiVo with a shared dial-up connection.

Any chance you want to upgrade to ADSL soon :confused:


Peter.
Dialup is a pain but I'm hoping to buy a place before the end of this year so I've been putting off broadband until after I move.

I have just tried WinGate, instead of WinRoute Lite, for doing NAT.

I can see, via WinGate's history of NAT, that the Tivo makes 3 x UDP requests to 61.88.88.88:53 when I trigger the First Call Setup but nothing further appears in the logs and, a couple of minutes later, the Tivo gives the message: "Failed. Service unavailable" on the screen for the First Call Setup.

It looks to me like my problems stem from the fact that I wasn't able to run the Updater when I imaged the drives on the Tivo.

[petestrash]

Ok,

Port 53 is used for DNS queries, and 61.88.x.x is owned by Optus. I don't believe the TiVo is making these requests directly as the TiVo doesn't know your DNS IP. It is possible that the TiVo may be using minnie.tuhs.org in it's request, and your PC is sending the request to your ISP's DNS server.

I didn't notice traceroute failed because of DNS issues in post 26. It looks like you might have DNS broken on your TiVo. Try the following:

traceroute -p 21 130.194.11.222
traceroute -p 80 130.194.11.222
traceroute -p 21 131.244.9.101
traceroute -p 80 131.244.9.101
traceroute -p 80 minnie.tuhs.org

Peter.

[MJW]

Ok,

Port 53 is used for DNS queries, and 61.88.x.x is owned by Optus. I don't believe the TiVo is making these requests directly as the TiVo doesn't know your DNS IP. It is possible that the TiVo may be using minnie.tuhs.org in it's request, and your PC is sending the request to your ISP's DNS server.

I didn't notice traceroute failed because of DNS issues in post 26. It looks like you might have DNS broken on your TiVo. Try the following:

traceroute -p 21 130.194.11.222
traceroute -p 80 130.194.11.222
traceroute -p 21 131.244.9.101
traceroute -p 80 131.244.9.101
traceroute -p 80 minnie.tuhs.org

Peter.

Attached are the results from Traceroute on Tivo. These seemed to take a VERY long time to complete.

I've also attached a log from WinGate for two reasons: 1) It shows how long Traceroute took. 2) There was a HUGE number of UDP requests to 61.88.88.88:53 occuring while I ran the Traceroute commands. It looks like the Tivo was generating these but maybe I don't have WinGate setup correctly?!?

Out of interest - I'm using Bizmail for dialup. Is the DNS server (61.88.88.88) something that other ISPs might use if they are using Optus infrastructure further along?

[petestrash]

Strange traceroute -p 80 ftp.monash.edu.au & traceroute -p 21 ftp.monash.edu.au didn't work for you, but the direct traceroute -p 21 130.194.11.222 & traceroute -p 80 130.194.11.222 did. Yet traceroute -p 80 minnie.tuhs.org works fine.

you seem to have flaky dns resolution, yet not flaky enough to let the od daily call through.

Peter

[MJW]

I'm pleased to report that I have finally succeeded in getting my Tivo to complete the First Call Setup. I've now completed the Guided Setup and I'm going to leave my Tivo alone for a few hours while it organises the program data it just downloaded.

Below are the steps I took in case this helps someone else using SerialPPP with WinXP on a dialup connection. Please note that, in my case, it does not appear that my ISP (Bizmail) is using a Transparent Proxy for the dialup connections.

1) I re-imaged my Tivo using release 1.6.2. When it came to setting up the Emulator I chose to enter the IP address for minnie (131.244.9.101) instead of using "minnie.tuhs.org". [I made this decision because I had previously been experiencing DNS problems]

2) I followed the document "Setup a serial PPP connection to Windows XP" from Steps 1-7. [I had already installed WinGate software to handle NAT].

3) I completed ignored Step 8a because I never really understood it.

4) I followed Step 8b and made a successful test call from the TivoWebPlus using my browser.

5) When I selected "Make Daily Call Now", the TivoWebPlus still got stuck on the first step: "SettingUp". [I had this problem before but previously I rebooted my Tivo by turning the power off. I didn't do that this time in case it messed something up].

6) I navigated through the Guide Setup using my TV screen and the Tivo remote. I didn't make a Test Call this time. [I had previously turned off Dial Tone detection but this time I left it as it was. I don't think this is really relevant given that I am networking using Serial PPP but I thought I should mention it anyway]. I then intiated the First Setup Call. This worked and the TivoWebPlus (still displayed in my browser) started cycling through the steps of the call in unison with the output on my TV screen.

7) The rest of the Guided Setup went smoothly as described in the documents on the Oztivo website.

Peter - thank you for all your help throughout this thread. I really appreciate the advice you have given me. I've learnt a lot from your posts and the various tests you asked me to try along the way. I don't know why the DNs was causing problems but the I approach I outlined above has allowed me to at least side-step the issue.

Cheers,
Michael

[petestrash]

I think the issue some type of DNS problem with the nat software you are using. You have worked around this by specifing an IP. Though the traceroute to minnie.tuhs.org worked ok.

Whatever the reason, I'm glad it's working for you and you now start to enjoy TiVo.

Remember because of the way you connect the TiVo will most likely be unable to make it's automatic daily calls. I suggest you make a manual call at least each Friday night to be sure you don't run out of data.

Peter.