slow remote

[NoSignal]

Hi. I found that my remote issues are actually like the "Slow Remote" described at the bottom of this page: Slow Remote (bottom of http://minnie.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/view/Hintsortips/EvidenceForLockedRemote)

I quote:

- Slightly similar problem, where each keypress takes minutes - yes, minutes - to register
- some progress can be made by touching the remote to the TiVo's IR eye before pressing a key.
- See if there is another device nearby that could be swamping the TiVo with IR, such as a video sender.
- Point the latter in some other direction or temporarily turn it off to confirm it as the problem.

[NoSignal]

My symptoms were:
- Tivo lasted about 1-2 hours the first time (while in GSetup).
- Then, while going down long IR codes list started hanging,
- But would get a response once every ~2mins.
- If I didn't use it for e.g. ~10 minutes, then I could make ~5 button presses before hanging again.
- Unplugged power. Wait 1 minute. Plugged back in. RC Hang in about 1 min.
- Unplugged power. Plugged power back in. RC Hangs immediately.
- Unplugged power. Unplugged serial, LAN, IR. Plugged power back in. RC Hangs immediately.
- Tried connection by serial and rebooting. Still hangs immediately
- I felt around on the components. CPU was hot while functional but cooled down quick. But PSU transformer and heatsink stayed hot for quite a while.

So seems both "IR frequency of use" and "overheating - probably PSU" related.

or not... who knows.

[NoSignal]

This is my second experience:
- Running GS for 1-2 hours again (I was having trouble modem connecting to server). Being very careful to press a button only once every 2 seconds.
- Becomes "Slow Remote" at "Channels you Receive".
- Again, CPU quite hot but PSU heatsink even hotter.
- I rebooted (into GS mode). Only got in about 3 button presses before became "Slow Remote" again.
- I rebooted (into GS mode). Became "Slow Remote" immediately.

So this time, I was not overusing the remote, but I got exactly the same symptoms...

[NoSignal]

Ok, now my third experience:

- Unplugged and let it completely cool down for about 4 hours.
- Running GS for under 10 minutes. Being very careful to press a button only once every 2 seconds.
- Becomes a "Slow Remote" at around the "SetTopBox Brand" screen (a long list of brands).
- Again, CPU quite hot but PSU heatsink even hotter. Maybe not as hot as last time, but my finger is pretty subjective.
- I rebooted (into GS mode). Became "Slow Remote" immediately.
- I tried uninstalling the TurboWeb card and turning off TivoWebPlus as soon as terminal became available, but still became "Slow Remote" immediately.

Three things I conclude from this:
1) Time seems to be less of a factor than I thought. Maybe because a component can just as easily overheat in 10 min as 2 hours. Or maybe because it is actually a software problem after all. But then why would it begin to "slow" immediately.
2) It always seems to happen when a long list is displayed. Maybe because that loads the CPU more...
It must be a hardware-software interaction. Maybe higher CPU load overheats a component faster. And maybe with an unstable overheated component, another bit of software is more likely to "slow". But that is a whole lot of maybe's.
3) Maybe I don't have the same problem the rest of you have - maybe I have a more seriously faulty peice of hardware.
I mean, I should be able to make it through more than 10 minutes!
Then again, maybe it is the same problem, just amplified, which makes it easier for me to replicate and experiment with.

So any ideas anyone has would be great. I am willing to be a lab rat, but bear in mind I have no broadband at home, and I am currently having trouble telnetting in (I can only connect as tivo boots, and then connection is lost in under a minute!). Terminal works fine.

If a fellow Cantabrian would be interested in a meetup, then maybe we could try swapping out components (like the PSU) and hopefully identify the offending peice.

[Skolink]

Some remotes are actually slow! I got a TiVo from ebay that came with a worn orginal remote and a new orange replacement remote. The TiVo was very slow scrolling up and down the menus, so I tried two orignal remotes (including the worn one that came with the TiVo) and it was very snappy, going up and down menus as fast as on my original TiVo. I used the same new set of batteries in both remotes. The electronics inside the orange remote were slightly different, as you may expect from a copy/clone remote.

It's got nothing to do with the problems described below, but I thought I'd mention it, just out of interest.

NoSignal it is normal for the parts you describe to get quite hot, I doubt that is the reason your TiVo keeps locking up. Drop me a line, and I'll give you a hand with your TiVo.

[NoSignal]

Interesting to know Skolink.

Thanks heaps for the offer - I'll mail you.

[NoSignal]

I also got an email from Darren King (snippets):


I have never experienced a power supply being related to a hot CPU and slow remote response. ... I should mention that usually the CPU will feel cooler to touch than the two MPEG chips (the one branded IBM towards the rear of the board and the other branded Sony near the hard disk IDE connector). Granted, there may be something internal or external to the TiVo either hardware or software related that is causing hot CPU which would slow the system down in an attempt to limit any damage.
I double-checked - actually it is the MPEG2 decoder that is getting hotter, so looks like nothing out of the ordinary there.


Although *I* have not seen this problem related to a power supply that never means I have seen it all as I never profess to knowing absolutely everything about anything :)

The only thing I have seen that causes slow remote response is something external flooding the IR sensor in the TiVo. Usually compact fluorescent lamps or IR extender devices are the culprit here.
I did have CFL's used in that room so I have swapped them all out for incandescents. I even tried disconnecting the IRblasters and covering the front of the TIVO with a duvet and sticking my hand underneath to hold the remote right in front of the sensor - I still get the same symptoms.


I would first see if there is someone local willing to help swap parts first as this would be much cheaper and more conclusive. It would be good to see if this TiVo actually works normally on an already set up and running hard disk under normal day-to-day conditions or if the CPU still gets hot.
Thanks to Skolink I'll give that a go. It would be good to try another remote etc. Thankfully I did manage to complete Guided Setup (yay! :D) by just hitting "Select" for everything (with 2-3 second pauses of course). I think it got slow near the end, but I went away and came back and got enough extra button presses to finish. Now it boots into normal operation, however, the same symptoms apply (slows after maybe 10-20 button presses, reboot, slows after 2-5 button presses, reboot, slows immediately). Least I can eliminate long lists as a problem - it is simply because long lists require so many button presses to navigate.

[NoSignal]

Ok, you can probably tell I have a science background. I figure, the more data you can collect on a problem, the more likely you can find a pattern, identify the problem and fix it. Well, thank goodness I can repeat my conditions quickly :).

So the conclusions to date seem to revolve around these obervations:

Cumulation Effect: Initially, "Slow Remote" is triggered after maybe 10-20 button presses within 10 minutes. When I reboot, it slows after 2-5 button presses, When I reboot it slows immediately. This indicates a "cumulation" effect - e.g. possibly heat, that builds up over time.
Dissipation effect: If I leave it for 1-minutes, then I can make one more button press. This dissipation is cumulative: If I leave it for about 20 minutes, then I can make about 12 button presses. This even seems to hold true if power is off!: If I unplug the power for a few minutes, I get a few more button presses (I have not tested this quantitatively). And it seems to be dissipating even before the remote slows: over 2 huors of use with more frequent use near end, I think I got more button presses in before it slowed.
Stepwise function: The remote does not get progressively slower. It goes from completely responsive to completely slow, with the threshold being determined by a cumulation/diispation effect of button presses.
Directly connected to remote use: If I spread those 10-20 initial button presses out, then it can take a couple of hours before it slows. Also, I think if I keep hitting buttons while slowed, it takes longer before I can actually get a functional button press.
Only effects remote: Terminal connection does not seem to be affected/slow down (I have not tested this quantitatively).

This is based on the following conditions:

All other sources of IR have been eliminated.
No difference between Guided Setup and Normal Operation
Chips do not seem to be overheating
Presence of TurboNet, Serial connection and IR blaster do not seem to make a difference.

Things yet to test:

Trying a different: remote, PSU, HDD, motherboard. I could also try pushing lots of buttons on the remote without letting the TIVO see them - might isolate whether it is a TIVO or remote control problem.


It would still be good to know if anyone else out there has the same symptoms as me. E.g: if you leave the TIVO for a while and come back, can you make a single button press?

[petestrash]

I have moved this thread, as your slow remote issue appears unrelated to the event bug issue in the thread you originally posted in.

Are you using a new or old hard drive?

Peter.

[NoSignal]

Ok, I can barely make my fingers type this message, but I found the cause of the problems...
The batteries in the remote control were very nearly dead. So after a few button pushes they would die, then after a while gather up a few electrons for another short sput of life.
And yes, I do feel rediculously stupid.
Thought in a slight whimper of defense, I have not had any other remote controls do this - when the die they stay dead.
Curse of the undead remote...

[petestrash]

Thanks for being upfront about the cause of the problem.

Glad it has been reslolved.

Peter.

[Darren King]

Ah yes!

And I can shed some light on why the remote suddenly springs into life for a couple of button pushes: There is a storage capacitor on the PCB inside the remote. This coupled with the "nearly dead" batteries causes the intermittent operation.

Glad to hear it is all fixed and for no more than a few clumps of head hair from all the pulling and a set of new AA batteries.