Choppy Video?

[slipmat]

Hi all

I just got a Philips HDR612 (I think) on Friday and thanks to the tips from Shane and the nztivo.net guide I had it setup in a flash. :D

I have one slight problem - when I view stuff from the now playing list while recording another program the video tends to be a bit choppy every now and then. It's also a bit choppy watching live TV.

I have a 5400rpm Seagate 80G disk in at the mo but a mate has offered another 7200rpm 80G disk I would like to add in, so I am after a little advice.

Could the problems I'm experiencing be related to the speed of the disk? If I ghosted the existing image to the faster disk and used that as the master, will I see a performance increase or would it make no difference if I just added the faster disk as a secondary? I did not run a low level scan on the disk so is it likely some errors / bad sectors are causing the problem? I can't seen anything interesting in /var/log to indicate it is a bad disk.

Also I found a place in Oz selling the 9th tee CacheCard for $140AU and am thinking seriously about getting one (yes I've only had the TiVo for 3 days!) as the unit I have only has a 10mb TiVonet card. Is it worth getting the CacheCard at all? Will it help with the video problems? I also learned the max database size on a standalone S1 is 512MB so not much point in throwing more memory on the card right?

One last question - the nztivo.net instructions say to add the NZ emulator 210.48.107.133 on port 80 but I see people are talking about using port 8000 - have I got this wrong cos my guide data appears to be ok.

So many questions... sorry if it's a bit much, I'm sure some of you can help

Thanks heaps! :rolleyes:

Matt

[NZMarke]

Hi Matt -

Can't comment on the cache card. But I too had problems with choppy video. There are other potential causes (you're not still in NTSC mode are you?) ... but my cause turned out to be a faulty disc. I replaced it with another disc and re-imaged and the problem went away.

My symptoms were that the video (and audio) would "freeze" for anything from a second to several seconds ... it got progressively worse, starting with short glitches and got gradually longer and longer.

So it's just possible that your disc could be the culprit .. in which case the new disc could be the answer to your problem.

HTH,

Mark

[NZMarke]

I should also have mentioned ... for the cost of a new disc, it might well be worth getting and putting in a larger HDD. I've now got a 200Gb disc in mine - sweeeeet! ;-)

Might be a better investment than the cache-card? I've got no cache-card in mine and it operates as sweet-as-a-nut. But I'd be interested to hear more from others about the pros-and-cons of the cache-card ...

Cheers

Mark

[slipmat]

Thanks Mark!

The first few shows I recorded while the box was in 'maintenance mode' and I understand the NTSC frame skips, but the box is definitely running in PAL mode now and I still get the skips as you describe so I'd say the HDD is a bit flakey (it's been around a bit).

I have hunted down some large and fast disks on PriceSpy which prove to be a cheaper (and probably more reliable) option than the cachecard at this stage, I also have a company account at Techpac if it is worth spending an extra $20 on a UATA/133 200GB disk with 8MB cache - does anyone have reccomendations on the brand of disk & cache size? It's been a few years since I personally bought an HDD ;)

Thanks again for the help, you saved me $140AU and potentially my relationship ;)

Matt

[NZMarke]

Hi Matt -

Check the doco on OzTivo, but pretty sure you need to get a SATA drive ... not sure that the old TiVo will support a UATA .. but then I'm no hardware guru.

I bought mine from one of the shops linked on PriceSpy too .. From memory it was around $160 or thereabouts for a 200Gb drive. I think I ended up getting a Western Digital. Has worked flawlessly .. and is even a little faster than the other one I think .. it's a 5200 not a 7200 speed one.

Never fear, your relationship will improve with the Tivo .. I can personally attest to that. My wife is so enamoured of it that when the disc started to die, she offered to go halves in the cost of a new one. Better still, she actually ponied up the dollars! ;-)

This from someone who's Video player used to blink 00:00 when I met her. Now she wouldn't do without the TiVo .. unmissable feature? Every time she hits an ad-break she says "Most people have to watch ads .. but WE'VE got a TiVo!". Trust me, from here on in it's all good!

Good luck,

Cheers

Mark

[Darren King]

Check the doco on OzTivo, but pretty sure you need to get a SATA drive ... not sure that the old TiVo will support a UATA .. but then I'm no hardware guru.

NO! TiVo does not support Serial-ATA (SATA) drives. TiVo *will* support UATA but the transfer speed will only ever be ATA-33 anyway due to the hardware limitations of the IDE interface.

[petestrash]

Also I found a place in Oz selling the 9th tee CacheCard for $140AU and am thinking seriously about getting one (yes I've only had the TiVo for 3 days!) as the unit I have only has a 10mb TiVonet card. Is it worth getting the CacheCard at all? Will it help with the video problems? I also learned the max database size on a standalone S1 is 512MB so not much point in throwing more memory on the card right?

I have both cachecard and turbonet tivo's, I can't see much difference in FTP speed between the cachecard and turbonet.

The only real benefit of the cachecard is when you install 512mb of memory and you have a very long now showing list it brings the list up much faster, but I don't think it's good value for money.

Peter.

[NZMarke]

NO! TiVo does not support Serial-ATA (SATA) drives. TiVo *will* support UATA but the transfer speed will only ever be ATA-33 anyway due to the hardware limitations of the IDE interface.

Ooops .. sorry. As I said I'm not (any more anyway) a hardware expert. I used to know the acronyms, but that part of my brain has atrophied! ;-)

So a standard ATA drive is the go then. My other recommendations still stand though ... I think it's worth splashing out to get a larger HDD - and I note that the feedback on the cachecard is not that enthusiastic too ..

Exits as credibility crumbles ....:eek:

Cheers

Mark

[slipmat]

Ooops .. sorry. As I said I'm not (any more anyway) a hardware expert. I used to know the acronyms, but that part of my brain has atrophied! ;-)

Too much TV perhaps? ;)

Thanks all for the help, I've just spashed out on a 300GB Seagate (it wasn't much more expensive than the 200GB, I just hope the poor TiVo can address 300 gigs as I found little info online).

Now only one question remains - I want to reimage the new disk as I think the existing disk may have corrupted something (guide data maybe?) - it was supposedly recording Shortland St at 7:40pm even though the time was OK and the next program details were being displayed... strange. Anyway I want to start from scratch for good measure, but want to transfer one or two programs from the existing disk - I will search the forums when I get home unless anyone has some quick tips to get this done easily...? If it can be done on my PC rather than via the 10mbps TiVonet card I'm sure it will be much faster ;)

Cheers

Matt

[Darren King]

Thanks all for the help, I've just spashed out on a 300GB Seagate (it wasn't much more expensive than the 200GB, I just hope the poor TiVo can address 300 gigs as I found little info online).

300GB is small compared to what a TiVo can handle. All the info you needed online about this is here: http://minnie.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/view/FAQ/BeginnersFAQ#What_s_the_Biggest_Disk_capacity



Anyway I want to start from scratch for good measure, but want to transfer one or two programs from the existing disk - I will search the forums when I get home unless anyone has some quick tips to get this done easily...? If it can be done on my PC rather than via the 10mbps TiVonet card I'm sure it will be much faster ;)


Not easy to do and for the sake of a couple of programs probably not worth it, but limited info which may or may not be of help is here: http://minnie.tuhs.org/twiki/bin/view/Hardware/RecoverABadDiskToAnotherDisk

[Lurker]

Couple of tips

If you can then get 5400 RPM ATA Drive as 7200 can get a bit noisy and hot.

If you cannot get 5400 get a drive that has a utility to slow the drive down (quiet mode) - you will need to configure the drive in a PC.

If you can look at the Drive warranties. A few years back I got a Samsung Spinpoint 120Gb as all the other manufacturers had dropped back to a 1 year warranty and the Samsung had a 3 year. Drives do fail and as Tivo runs them constantly expect them to fail sooner.

Although you CAN get a huge drive think about failure. If you can archive off over a network do so onto a PC with a SATA drive or DVD - less prone to terminal failure. Also because of failure think about cost benefit of getting a smaller drive rather than bigger if you do not need the space - if it dies after 2 years it will not cost so much to replace a 200Gb than a 300GB.

I did the math with SATA drives (got a Seagate 250GB) for my PC a couple of months ago - I too have Techpac access but found they cost more for the same drives than Super Cheap PC in Auckland. So if you are in Auckland check out price spy as you will often find Techpac more costly even at Trade once you add GST and $3.75 courier. Have pity on us IT sales types we do not actually make much Margin :( and the likes of Super Cheap bring them in direct from Singapore - you run the risk of warranty based in Singapore if the retailer goes under but do the math....

Lastly there was a comment of large drive size - what is the current max size without cahce card - I though the Tivo maxed out at around 200GB?

Chris

[Darren King]

Hi Chris

Seagate now have 5 year warranties on their hard disks but be careful as this time starts from the date of manufacture. I had a hard disk fail once when they had two year warranty on them and could not claim it through Seagate RMA returns as their website said it was no longer within the two years despite a receipt I had saying otherwise. I did (eventually) get it replaced via the PC shop I got it from but it took a LOT of haggling.


there was a comment of large drive size - what is the current max size without cahce card - I though the Tivo maxed out at around 200GB?


No. Cachecards have no bearing on maximum drive size. You may be thinking of the old 137GB limitation which has not been applicable for quite a while (years) now since the install images started using LBA48 addressing.

[petestrash]

If you can then get 5400 RPM ATA Drive as 7200 can get a bit noisy and hot.

It is virtually impossible to buy 5400rpm drives at retail outlets anymore (though large wholesalers keep them for legacy raid replacements).

Noise and heat are not much of an issue with most of the latest generation of 7200rpm drives, some even use less power than the old 5400rpm models.

Peter.

[Lurker]

Not saying I would use Seagate for a Tivo (on the other hand not saying I would not...) :D It just so happened that Seagate did the cheapest SATA for my PC (no good for Tivo as SATA) at the time but was making a point regarding Trade prices through Techpac may actually be more costly than retail through direct importers (mumble mumble mutter mutter)

There was a manufacturer a few years ago that did a continuous 24x7 rated drive for streaming media but cannot remember who and, as it was a number of years ago, it probably no longer exists. Thank goodness developments in drives appear to have made more reliable drives recently if the 5 year warranty is anything to go by.

The Samsung I put in my Tivo 4 years ago is still going strong so I cannot complain. Mind you the minute it shows errors I will pull it out because if I lose the last couple of months of recordings of Desperate Houswives, House etc my wife will kill me when she gets back from the UK :rolleyes:

Eventually we will get in trouble as ATA drive go away - interesting that Xbox 360 uses a SATA DVD-ROM for example - but I guess if the 5400 ATA drives have all gone I will be putting a 7200 in my Tivo when my current drive gets too small (probably next week.....)

Chris

[petestrash]

Not saying I would use Seagate for a Tivo (on the other hand not saying I would not...) :D It just so happened that Seagate did the cheapest SATA for my PC (no good for Tivo as SATA) at the time but was making a point regarding Trade prices through Techpac may actually be more costly than retail through direct importers (mumble mumble mutter mutter)

The Seagate 7200.8 series Is probably the most popular upgrade drive used in TiVo's during the last 12 months. Their quietness and 5 year warranty certainly helped here. But I understand what you mean about retail sometimes being cheaper than wholesale, apart from grey market imports, GST cheating is also rife in the industry.


There was a manufacturer a few years ago that did a continuous 24x7 rated drive for streaming media but cannot remember who and, as it was a number of years ago, it probably no longer exists. Thank goodness developments in drives appear to have made more reliable drives recently if the 5 year warranty is anything to go by.

Most manufacturers have DVR rated drives, for Seagate it's their SV35 series which are rated for DVR use 24x7 and a high number of write cycles. But these drives are not easily obtained at the retail level and most people just use PC drives in the 7200.x series. With a 5 year wty it's not much of an issue.

Peter

[Darren King]

Eventually we will get in trouble as ATA drive go away

I doubt that is going to happen any time in the forseeable future. ATA will remain for quite a while to come. And just like there is a plethora of adaptors for convering other standards to and from one another I am quite confident we will see an ATA-SATA adaptor too when the need arises.

[petestrash]

And just like there is a plethora of adaptors for convering other standards to and from one another I am quite confident we will see an ATA-SATA adaptor too when the need arises.

They already exist for either direction
ide-to-sata-converter.htm (http://www.cwol.com/serial-ata/ide-to-sata-converter.htm)

http://www.cwol.com/serial-ata/images/adsaide-250.gif

sata-ide-converter.htm (http://www.satasite.com/sata-ide-converter.htm)

http://www.satasite.com/images/ad3300.gif

Peter.

[Darren King]

Cool! I'll see if I can get one and try it out in a TiVo. Would be nice to know if they work.

Cheers

[BrentonSpear]

Did anyone ever test the ide to sata connector above to see if it would work with sata drives?

[petestrash]

Out of the dozens of adapters I have heard about/tested there has only been one reported to work with S1 TiVo's, but I have not been able to track another sample of it down. I think the chances of one of the current adapters working is very slim.

Peter.

[Darren King]

I agree with Peter. I have tried several types as well and no luck. Stick to PATA IDE hard disks - they are still plentiful :)

[BrentonSpear]

Plentiful? I have been struggling to get a 500GB drive. The only 1 I can now find is the SV35 ones.

[BrentonSpear]

The Seagate SV35 says it is an "Ultra ATA 100" interface. Is this the same as PATA and will it work?

Link to details of drive below:
http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_sv35_7200_2.pdf

[Darren King]

Plentiful? I have been struggling to get a 500GB drive. The only 1 I can now find is the SV35 ones.

Well, yes, PATA is a dying breed, but I guess it depends who your supplier is. I count several from www.cpl.net.au that are suitable. However I cannot see PATA completely dying off for a while yet as there is too much hardware out there (not including consumer PC and older TiVo) that rely on it.

If you are really adventurous (or desperate) you *could* even use a PATA 2.5" laptop hard disk with appropriate adaptor plug.

In answer to your other question, UATA-100 is a Parallel ATA (PATA) interface and will work fine.

[petestrash]

Brenton, your profile does not say where you are. But if your in Austalia try a search on staticice.com.au.

This (http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?manufacturer=&model=&words=500gb+ide&phrase=&excludewords=usb+serial+external+sata&site=&price-min=&price-max=&links=100) is a search for 500gb IDE drives. You will find plenty of vendors.

Peter.

PS, You might want to update your profile with your City, State. It helps with support.

[BrentonSpear]

Thanks Peter.